Allpar Forums banner

1 - 20 of 96 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I got some interesting insider info today; I consider it to be reliable... Mopar isn't sitting still on their engine technology, nor are they giving up on the "old ways" either.

The new straight-6 - which will be hitting Jeep's first, it seems (Wagoneer?) - is going to have an all-aluminum block with NO SLEEVES. The block will have a sprayed-in piston lining that is honed down to its final size. This should reduce weight even further and also improve manufacturability. This jives with the previous news that this engine will replace and perform equivalently or better than the 5.7L - reducing weight is great way to increase performance. This tech isn't revolutionary, but it's primarily used by higher-end manufacturers such as Mercedes, BMW, and Audi. As far as I know, this is the first production use of this technology for Mopar. (All other aluminum-blocked engines have had cast-in sleeves.)

More excitingly, there appears to be a "big block" Hemi on the way still! A taller deck is going to be used to increase the displacement of the current engines. (An "RSB", if you will.) Final specs aren't set, but 426 c.i. is the target (for obvious reasons...) This engine has been hiding in plain sight, it seems; its code name is "Hercules". It seems the Gladiator concept may have been a bit of a smoke-screen or misdirection and less about the Jeep it rode around in than the engine that propelled it.

This does seem to conflict with the Rebel TR being shelved, but perhaps that shelving was temporary or this engine will see use in another model all together (like, say, the Gladiator). Regardless, this engine isn't dead just yet...This also bodes well for the Hemi line itself, IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
My son is a master tech for Ford, one of their 4 cyl is a spray type cylinder finish. He thought it was some wild new tech, I told him the 2 stroke dirt bike and outboard stuff (Nickasil) has been around for decades... As far as the "426" goes.... I was all set to trade my 16 scatpack on an anniversary model with the 426. It sounded like a done deal at the time. Maybe, just maybe, it might come to be. A straight 6 is OK, but lacks the smoothness and sound of a V-8, I don't think it will be the success story everyone says.
 

·
THE MAD DUCK
Joined
·
2,384 Posts
Hope the Sprayed Cylinder Bore Process is Fully Developed and Proved Out.
I Once Owned a Chevy Vega And We All Know How that Turned Out.
Fortunately I Unloaded It with 30K Miles on It,
Just after I Discovered that # 3 Cylinder had Real Low Compression.
I did It a Couple of Months Before Word Got Out about the "Disposable" 4-Cylinder Engine It Had.
Call Me Old Fashioned but I Like Iron Cylinder Bores.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
I traded in a 68 Vette on a new 72 Vega GT when we started a family, Less then a year later I unloaded the Vega and bought a used 1971 340 Demon. I’ve been a Mopar guy ever since. You can keep your Nicasal spray, I want steel liners, Thank You.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
My son is a master tech for Ford, one of their 4 cyl is a spray type cylinder finish. He thought it was some wild new tech, I told him the 2 stroke dirt bike and outboard stuff (Nickasil) has been around for decades... As far as the "426" goes.... I was all set to trade my 16 scatpack on an anniversary model with the 426. It sounded like a done deal at the time. Maybe, just maybe, it might come to be. A straight 6 is OK, but lacks the smoothness and sound of a V-8, I don't think it will be the success story everyone says.
I agree. Recently went hooning in my cousins 540xi, the thing pulls strong but has zero personality. I seriously hope the Dodge I6T sounds good otherwise it's going to be boring.
 

·
Virginia Gentleman
Joined
·
14,808 Posts
Hope the Sprayed Cylinder Bore Process is Fully Developed and Proved Out.
I Once Owned a Chevy Vega And We All Know How that Turned Out.
Fortunately I Unloaded It with 30K Miles on It,
Just after I Discovered that # 3 Cylinder had Real Low Compression.
I did It a Couple of Months Before Word Got Out about the "Disposable" 4-Cylinder Engine It Had.
Call Me Old Fashioned but I Like Iron Cylinder Bores.
My old roommate had a Vega, but it had one with the iron sleeves. Was actually a decent little car for the time. His brother squeezed a 350 V8 in one and raced at the local strip. Turned 14's if I remember right. He installed ladder bars - that was one car you felt every crack going down the street.
 
  • Like
Reactions: James A

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,121 Posts
The more powerful version of the I6T will not be boring. The 1320 will beat it down the strip, but that’s about it. No 5.7 or 6.4 will touch it. If that’s “boring” to you, then I’d like to see what’s in your garage.

The 426 is on again off again. I get mixed signals on it. Production ready, or nearly so, versions exist. Expect it to have proportionately more power than the 6.4.

I suspect that they have known about the PSA merger for quite a while, and the supposed Renault-Nissan deal was just a distraction to help motivate PSA side stakeholders. It wouldn’t be the first time such stuff has happened.

Because of that, I suspect the information embargo I have suffered through since last December will finally lift. I suspect we’ll know more as the show season heats up, the merger is finalized, and warm weather comes.

I eagerly await the ACR. I suspect it will come in two flavors. Redeye, and 6.4 or 7.0, possibly with a run of the mill ACR and an ACR-E. All will be fully tuneable. About the only thing missing should be factory tuneable ARBs, and E-locker, and brake pressure and balance tuning. All of which is available in the aftermarket, now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
'Hercules' might be a truck engine too. Ford's new 7.3L and GM's new 6.6L deliver impressive H.P. and torque, and if Ram wants to stay competitive in medium duty trucks they will need a competitive gasoline engine. Diesels are falling out of favor with a lot of fleets, becoming too expensive both in purchase and maintenance/repair. BTW- Ram needs a heavier chassis cab model around 23,000#'s GVW.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,016 Posts
The all Aluminum engine blocks will be an issue in Northern Regions, My wife had a car that had an all Al. engine and at -30's with it plugged in, was very difficult to start. They'll have to come up with an awesome heating system for these engines to work in very cold weather.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
The more powerful version of the I6T will not be boring. The 1320 will beat it down the strip, but that’s about it. No 5.7 or 6.4 will touch it. If that’s “boring” to you, then I’d like to see what’s in your garage.

The 426 is on again off again. I get mixed signals on it. Production ready, or nearly so, versions exist. Expect it to have proportionately more power than the 6.4.

I suspect that they have known about the PSA merger for quite a while, and the supposed Renault-Nissan deal was just a distraction to help motivate PSA side stakeholders. It wouldn’t be the first time such stuff has happened.

Because of that, I suspect the information embargo I have suffered through since last December will finally lift. I suspect we’ll know more as the show season heats up, the merger is finalized, and warm weather comes.

I eagerly await the ACR. I suspect it will come in two flavors. Redeye, and 6.4 or 7.0, possibly with a run of the mill ACR and an ACR-E. All will be fully tuneable. About the only thing missing should be factory tuneable ARBs, and E-locker, and brake pressure and balance tuning. All of which is available in the aftermarket, now.
The more powerful version... Can you elaborate? The 5.7 replacement is not the more powerful version correct? Because I'm talking about the standard I6T that will be the 5.7 replacement and I'm comparing it to the 540 BMW which also has that company's standard I6T. The BMW I6T pulls but has no personality, it's boring in comparison to the 5.7 with the active exhaust. Maybe introducing a quiet R/T that sounds like a flatulent lawn motor will be fine if it handles as phenomenally as I've heard it will and gets better all-around numbers than that current R/T. Or maybe buyers will opt for the V8 option instead. We'll see. To be clear, I'm glad we're getting an I6, just not as a replacement for affordable V8's.

You say that no 6.4 will touch the higher power I6T, but the 1320 that you say will beat the I6T down the strip is a 6.4... can you clarify?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,100 Posts
I traded in a 68 Vette on a new 72 Vega GT when we started a family, Less then a year later I unloaded the Vega and bought a used 1971 340 Demon. I’ve been a Mopar guy ever since. You can keep your Nicasal spray, I want steel

You think that is a bad trade, when the gas crunch of 1972 hit, my dad traded a 1969 Cougar Eliminator in on a Pinto station wagon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I would certainly think that an RSB engine would be a great fit for Rams, both as an upgrade in the 1500 and standard in the HDs. Big torque isn't going out of style any time soon, but prices on diesels keep climbing and climbing.

IMO, if the RSB can be built/tuned similarly to the 6.4L (And I don't see why it couldn't be...), there's no reason not to offer both a high-torque workhorse and a high-horsepower screamer variant for use in different applications. Mopar seems to have no problem optimizing certain features of the basic engine package to better suit the vehicle it will be used in (see the current 5.7L and 6.4L in cars vs trucks for examples).

The I6 intrigues me. I like having the option available, but I am not ready to say that approach is the one to take in replacing the 5.7L. I certainly would not let it replace the 6.4L, even if the HP is comparable. There's no way a small-displacement, high-strung 6-cylinder can match the power-to-durability ratio of a larger V8.

Honestly, I'd rather see them go back to the "Magnum" but stick with V8s. Or see what can be done with a narrow-V Hemi?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,121 Posts
The more powerful version... Can you elaborate? The 5.7 replacement is not the more powerful version correct? Because I'm talking about the standard I6T that will be the 5.7 replacement and I'm comparing it to the 540 BMW which also has that company's standard I6T. The BMW I6T pulls but has no personality, it's boring in comparison to the 5.7 with the active exhaust. Maybe introducing a quiet R/T that sounds like a flatulent lawn motor will be fine if it handles as phenomenally as I've heard it will and gets better all-around numbers than that current R/T. Or maybe buyers will opt for the V8 option instead. We'll see. To be clear, I'm glad we're getting an I6, just not as a replacement for affordable V8's.

You say that no 6.4 will touch the higher power I6T, but the 1320 that you say will beat the I6T down the strip is a 6.4... can you clarify?
No 6.4 OTHER than the 1320. From what I have heard.

There are at multiple power levels of the I6T coming. That has been accepted as inevitable around here. I was referring to the only one for which I have heard about—the most powerful version, that most folks around here have at 500+HP all the way to 550HP. I know nothing about any other version, only what has been posted by others. From what I have heard, the HO i6T is a hellaciously good engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,121 Posts
Also, I have conflicting info about who gets the i6T first. Last I heard (old news) was that the HO. Weston was first, and it would go into some sort of HO car, likely a Chally/Charger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
'Hercules' might be a truck engine too. Ford's new 7.3L and GM's new 6.6L deliver impressive H.P. and torque, and if Ram wants to stay competitive in medium duty trucks they will need a competitive gasoline engine. Diesels are falling out of favor with a lot of fleets, becoming too expensive both in purchase and maintenance/repair. BTW- Ram needs a heavier chassis cab model around 23,000#'s GVW.
That makes a lot of since, I suspect that the 5.7 and 6.4 will be phased out over several years in the muscle cars, some trucks and SUV’s and replaced with various tunes of 3.0T and 3.0TT. 7.0 in HD pick ups and chassis cabs makes a lot of since.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
Also, I have conflicting info about who gets the i6T first. Last I heard (old news) was that the HO. Weston was first, and it would go into some sort of HO car, likely a Chally/Charger.
Yea that jives with what I heard, that the 5.7 Hemi sticks around longer with eTorque, dunno if that has changed. I heard from a very good source that a prototype that was tested had a Hemi in it and not an SRT Hemi. But who knows what will at production time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Yea that jives with what I heard, that the 5.7 Hemi sticks around longer with eTorque, dunno if that has changed. I heard from a very good source that a prototype that was tested had a Hemi in it and not an SRT Hemi. But who knows what will at production time.
It should go first in Challenger/Charger
 
1 - 20 of 96 Posts
Top