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And why did Caliber have so many engine options? Spent so much money on waaay too many configurations.
So Many? It had one too few. 1.8 was basically for export, 2.0 was the real base engine, 2.4 the mainstream engine and 2.4 turbo for maximum sport. It was missing a 230 HP 2.0T with an automatic as the regular sport option.

Of course Europe and Australia got the VW 2.0 Diesel due to their ignorant environment damaging regulations that they ignorantly claimed would help the environment.
 

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And why did Caliber have so many engine options? Spent so much money on waaay too many configurations.
Because the Caliber, Compass and Patriot were all built on the same architecture and same assembly plant, allowing for spreading the costs across multiple models, something FCA never quite seemed to grasp well.

Oh, go look at the sales figures for the trio. Far higher than what FCA generated with Compass alone.
 
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Because the Caliber, Compass and Patriot were all built on the same architecture and same assembly plant, allowing for spreading the costs across multiple models, something FCA never quite seemed to grasp well.

Oh, go look at the sales figures for the trio. Far higher than what FCA generated with Compass alone.
That's what I was getting at before with my posts, Caliber was not a failure in the first few years because of shared architecture. Heck, it actually averaged over 90k those first few years anyway. That was despite all the Daimler era cost cutting on it. Just like the Pacifica, though, I think Caliber was about 5-7 years to early for it's time.

I think a modern Caliber (based on Compass) with the current engines available would have been a fantastic vehicle. A 2.0T with the 9-speed would have made a nice performance version.

I would like to know the delta on when a new Model on the same architecture is profitable these days. So would 50k additional unit sales be enough? Could it be less, or is it more?

I think Dodge could have been given a Renegade as their Hornet, and Compass as a Caliber. Sportier, lighter, versions of those same vehicles that don't need all the extras associated with Trail-Rated-ness.
 

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That's what I was getting at before with my posts, Caliber was not a failure in the first few years because of shared architecture. Heck, it actually averaged over 90k those first few years anyway. That was despite all the Daimler era cost cutting on it. Just like the Pacifica, though, I think Caliber was about 5-7 years to early for it's time.

I think a modern Caliber (based on Compass) with the current engines available would have been a fantastic vehicle. A 2.0T with the 9-speed would have made a nice performance version.

I would like to know the delta on when a new Model on the same architecture is profitable these days. So would 50k additional unit sales be enough? Could it be less, or is it more?

I think Dodge could have been given a Renegade as their Hornet, and Compass as a Caliber. Sportier, lighter, versions of those same vehicles that don't need all the extras associated with Trail-Rated-ness.
I agree 100%

A Dodge version of the Renegade and Compass would allow the Jeep versions to be more focused. Dodge can sell the FWD cheap version right up to the AWD high-performance version.

But that seems to be what is being discussed. The Tonale is Compass size and would make a good Dodge.
 

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Dodge has a unique niche, since it's exclusive to the NA market and has no exact direct competition with exception to the Challenger, it actually has no limit as to what they can do. Considering the fact that a Compass already starts at close to $25K and the Tonale is likely to start at over $30K, how would they position this Dodge? If they aim it at midpack premium models like the CX30, Countryman, and Encore GX--they could easily steal sales. Mopar already does some of the best customization, which gives this another element to the package.

As for it's performance, I don't see this getting an engine with less than 200hp as a base. It can offer a lighter AWD system with lower ground clearance, since it's a more on road focused vehicle. If it does get the 1.5T Firefly, it'll likely be an eTorque version, because performance is the top priority. An R/T version or SRT version is likely to be 300+hp, as Dodge does tend to outgun any competition.

My only concern is that they don't limit it's appeal with drab dark interiors and actually put some money in what matters. They can pull some better parts from their PSA counterparts. Ditch the lame 9 speaker audio setups that they've had and gives us some premium upgrades.
 

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The Dodge needs to be made here in NA. It could be made at Belvidere since they have only one old product to sell.
I agree 100%

A Dodge version of the Renegade and Compass would allow the Jeep versions to be more focused. Dodge can sell the FWD cheap version right up to the AWD high-performance version.

But that seems to be what is being discussed. The Tonale is Compass size and would make a good Dodge.
this......makes too much sense lol.
Since Jeep wont make a trackhawk Compass, make an SRT Hornet (Dodge). They killed the Caliber, then the Dart, now the Journey... why cant we have nice things at Dodge too? Well...compact/affordable things.
 

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A caliber style vehicle with good design, engines and materials would sell but they need more. They need a serious tesla model S killer with tech above and beyond to show viability and get their name back in the media.
 

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Dodge could (fairly easily) compete with the S with a future Charger. I mean, the name is RIPE with electrification. But an EV Caliber/Hornet could close the gap between dodge and the Tesla Y. Durango would have to go full EV to best the X.
But Tesla is supposed to have a compact hot-hatch in the very near future.
 

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Dodge has a unique niche, since it's exclusive to the NA market and has no exact direct competition with exception to the Challenger, it actually has no limit as to what they can do. Considering the fact that a Compass already starts at close to $25K and the Tonale is likely to start at over $30K, how would they position this Dodge? If they aim it at midpack premium models like the CX30, Countryman, and Encore GX--they could easily steal sales. Mopar already does some of the best customization, which gives this another element to the package.

As for it's performance, I don't see this getting an engine with less than 200hp as a base. It can offer a lighter AWD system with lower ground clearance, since it's a more on road focused vehicle. If it does get the 1.5T Firefly, it'll likely be an eTorque version, because performance is the top priority. An R/T version or SRT version is likely to be 300+hp, as Dodge does tend to outgun any competition.

My only concern is that they don't limit it's appeal with drab dark interiors and actually put some money in what matters. They can pull some better parts from their PSA counterparts. Ditch the lame 9 speaker audio setups that they've had and gives us some premium upgrades.
First it does little good to speak of the niche that Fiat stuck Dodge in, since the first thing that should be done is expand the brand outside the niche.

Durango now has a direct competitor, the unibody 119" wheelbase Explorer. The Challenger has no direct competitor, the Mustang is 2 size classes smaller on a 7" shorter wheelbase and 300 lb lighter.

Positioning for a Dodge crossover is obvious, go head to head with Toyota/Honda. Give it an on road biased suspension with all season tires. Once the Dodge exists the FWD Jeeps can be killed so that Jeep is AWD only like Subaru. Chrysler goes after the Acura/Lexus models.
 

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First it does little good to speak of the niche that Fiat stuck Dodge in, since the first thing that should be done is expand the brand outside the niche.

Durango now has a direct competitor, the unibody 119" wheelbase Explorer. The Challenger has no direct competitor, the Mustang is 2 size classes smaller on a 7" shorter wheelbase and 300 lb lighter.

Positioning for a Dodge crossover is obvious, go head to head with Toyota/Honda. Give it an on road biased suspension with all season tires. Once the Dodge exists the FWD Jeeps can be killed so that Jeep is AWD only like Subaru. Chrysler goes after the Acura/Lexus models.
Unfortunately, Challenger is seen as a "pony car" and compared to Mustang and Camaro no matter how you want to frame it. As for the Durango, I'd completely forgotten about the Explorer, but they do compete in the same space--so there's one for you. No Jeeps in any form will be killed off as every model generates cash.

We've pounded the discussion of Chrysler going back upmarket into the ground and the only way that happens is if it won't step on Alfas toes in the process. That would also mean Chrysler would be getting a FWD variant of Tonale as well, but there is no mention of any new Chrysler models anywhere. Best case scenario for Chrysler is probably reskinned Peugeot or Citroen/DS models to align it with Lancia, as Dodge is aligned with Alfa.
 

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One if the most underated cars from Dodge was the Avenger R/T.
I had one that for what is was, it was very quick and trouble free. I miss that car.
I think you meant underpowered. ;) That car looked amazing but never had the power to back up the fast looks.

EDIT: Oops, thought you were talking about the 90s model.
 

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Unfortunately, Challenger is seen as a "pony car" and compared to Mustang and Camaro no matter how you want to frame it. As for the Durango, I'd completely forgotten about the Explorer, but they do compete in the same space--so there's one for you. No Jeeps in any form will be killed off as every model generates cash.

We've pounded the discussion of Chrysler going back upmarket into the ground and the only way that happens is if it won't step on Alfas toes in the process. That would also mean Chrysler would be getting a FWD variant of Tonale as well, but there is no mention of any new Chrysler models anywhere. Best case scenario for Chrysler is probably reskinned Peugeot or Citroen/DS models to align it with Lancia, as Dodge is aligned with Alfa.
Alfa can go back to Europe, Americans who aren't already Alfa fans don't want it. If Tavares insists on giving it 10 more years in the US it will bleed money all 10 years and then leave.

There is no mention of a new head of Chrysler to give interviews to the media. Rest assured it is coming. Yes, I expect the reskinned Peugeot/Citroen/DS models for Chrysler, and Alfa.
 

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Alfa can go back to Europe, Americans who aren't already Alfa fans don't want it. If Tavares insists on giving it 10 more years in the US it will bleed money all 10 years and then leave.

There is no mention of a new head of Chrysler to give interviews to the media. Rest assured it is coming. Yes, I expect the reskinned Peugeot/Citroen/DS models for Chrysler, and Alfa.
If Alfa continues to drag Stellantis down I agree. However, if Stellantis listens to its customers instead of being guns blazing trying to catch up to Germans--they could easily become a player in the US. People here wanted models like the Giulietta and look at what the Germans are doing with the subcompact segment. They continue to bring new customers to their brands. Alfa needs models that can generate the most capital at the lowest cost to produce.

I would love nothing more than to have Chrysler play in the premium space, with two (Voyager doesn't count as a third) models, they can start from scratch and go after the mainstream brands. Minivans don't speak of premium aspirations and getting some models in the lineup that can compete directly with Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Chevy, etc makes for more sense.

Back on topic, Dodge is more of a specialty brand and whatever they create needs to be aggressively styled, giving no excuses on its sporty intent. They have to chance to make some true standout models, since Stellantis is willing to invest in their projects. There would be nothing stopping Dodge from doing what Range Rover did with the Evoque (slightly oversized for the segment) without the Journey in the lineup. I'm surprised we haven't seen any sketches since the original concept.
 

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If Alfa continues to drag Stellantis down I agree. However, if Stellantis listens to its customers instead of being guns blazing trying to catch up to Germans--they could easily become a player in the US. People here wanted models like the Giulietta and look at what the Germans are doing with the subcompact segment. They continue to bring new customers to their brands. Alfa needs models that can generate the most capital at the lowest cost to produce.

I would love nothing more than to have Chrysler play in the premium space, with two (Voyager doesn't count as a third) models, they can start from scratch and go after the mainstream brands. Minivans don't speak of premium aspirations and getting some models in the lineup that can compete directly with Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Chevy, etc makes for more sense.

Back on topic, Dodge is more of a specialty brand and whatever they create needs to be aggressively styled, giving no excuses on its sporty intent. They have to chance to make some true standout models, since Stellantis is willing to invest in their projects. There would be nothing stopping Dodge from doing what Range Rover did with the Evoque (slightly oversized for the segment) without the Journey in the lineup. I'm surprised we haven't seen any sketches since the original concept.
No, Dodge cannot continue to be a specialty brand. The problem is Dodge and Alfa die if confined to their Fiat assigned niches; Dodge and Alfa overlap if they come out of their Fiat assigned niches. Alfa needs to go back to being a European regional brand.

Chrysler must go after Acura and Lexus FWD/AWD vehicles. They also die if confined to their Fiat assigned niche.
 

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No, Dodge cannot continue to be a specialty brand. The problem is Dodge and Alfa die if confined to their Fiat assigned niches; Dodge and Alfa overlap if they come out of their Fiat assigned niches. Alfa needs to go back to being a European regional brand.

Chrysler must go after Acura and Lexus FWD/AWD vehicles. They also die if confined to their Fiat assigned niche.

How do you figure Dodge would die?? You seem to be forgetting Maserati also ties in with those two and Dodge being strictly NA muscle/customization, it has a specific purpose. R/T, SRT, and Hellcats sell extremely well, so the brand generates cash with minimal investment. GMC survives as an exclusive truck/CUV/SUV with little effort as gussied up Chevys. MINI has its niche with BMW.

Chrysler could only go after Acura, Buick, and in some respects Mazda if it's given a product overhaul. That means dumping the Pacifica entirely. We are talking 10 years of planning and products for multiple brands and management that seems to know how to use economies of scale to their advantage well.
 
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