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Norway was one of Tesla’s largest markets, too. I believe they decided to phase out harvesting their oil. If you look at their geography and projected ocean level rise, you can see their issues. Supposedly the jet stream is going to shift was well, so if you live in the UK, make sure you insulate well and have central heating.

A real dilemma for me, do I hate Ford or Tesla most?
 

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Norway was one of Tesla’s largest markets, too. I believe they decided to phase out harvesting their oil. If you look at their geography and projected ocean level rise, you can see their issues. Supposedly the jet stream is going to shift was well, so if you live in the UK, make sure you insulate well and have central heating.

A real dilemma for me, do I hate Ford or Tesla most?
It is the Gulf stream that keeps the UK and Norway abnormally warm for their latitudes. Of course if temperatures rise things get better in the north and the migration of people south can reverse.
 

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It is the Gulf stream that keeps the UK and Norway abnormally warm for their latitudes. Of course if temperatures rise things get better in the north and the migration of people south can reverse.
If the temperatures rise, things do not get better for most people. The gulf stream moving drops temperatures more than the predicted rise. If you want more of a temperature rise, you also have days when everyone and everything dies from the oven-level heat, roads melt, etc. In the meantime, the main problem is ocean levels rising, destroying huge amounts of coastal lands, hurricanes, tornados, etc; while ocean life is decimated, leaving mass starvation in its wake.

You're depicting climate change as a “Canada will be nice to live in” event rather than the life-destroying reality every model predicts.


"By the way, if you’re going to vote for something, vote for warming. Less deaths due to cold, regions more habitable, larger crops, longer growing season. That’s good. Warming helps the poor." (John MacArthur)
 

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Norway was one of Tesla’s largest markets, too. I believe they decided to phase out harvesting their oil. If you look at their geography and projected ocean level rise, you can see their issues. Supposedly the jet stream is going to shift was well, so if you live in the UK, make sure you insulate well and have central heating.

A real dilemma for me, do I hate Ford or Tesla most?
Norway largest exports is oil and gas. That is main source of revenue for Norway...so NO, they are not going away from it anytime soon..the biggest challenge they have is extracting it due to it's location. Also sea rise would have little effect on them due to most of the coast is high rocky cliffs...its not flat coastline like Florida.
Furthermore, the recent more temperate climate has resulted in better crop yields...so the Global Warming trend has helped Norway.
It's one of Tesla's larger markets simply because its a wealthy country and thus like Americans...they too like to own status symbols of their wealth.
 

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Norway largest exports is oil and gas. That is main source of revenue for Norway...so NO, they are not going away from it anytime soon..the biggest challenge they have is extracting it due to it's location. Also sea rise would have little effect on them due to most of the coast is high rocky cliffs...its not flat coastline like Florida.
Furthermore, the recent more temperate climate has resulted in better crop yields...so the Global Warming trend has helped Norway.
It's one of Tesla's larger markets simply because its a wealthy country and thus like Americans...they too like to own status symbols of their wealth.

That said, it looks as though they are still drilling quite a bit. I stand corrected.

As for Tesla, it is not because they are a status symbol. -- Plug-in electric vehicles in Norway - Wikipedia

“The adoption and deployment of zero emission vehicles in Norway has been driven by policy, and actively supported by the government since the 1990s.[24] In addition to non-monetary incentives, all-electric cars and vans are exempt from all non-recurring vehicle fees, including purchase taxes, and 25% VAT on purchase, making electric car purchase price competitive with conventional cars.[4] Also, a tax reduction for plug-in hybrids went into effect starting in July 2013.[25][26]

"In 2015 the Parliament agreed to reduce and phase out some of the incentives beginning in 2018. Also local authorities were granted the right to decide whether electric cars can park for free and use public transport lanes.[27][28] In 2016, through its National Transport Plan 2018-2029 (NTP), a goal was set for all sales of new cars, urban buses and light commercial vehicles by 2025 to be zero emission vehicles.[24][29][30][31]"

Overall they went overboard on the incentives.
 

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Just saw my first Mach E in the wild.....
The roofline is legit the best part of that thing as a whole, no exception.
 

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Norway largest exports is oil and gas. That is main source of revenue for Norway...so NO, they are not going away from it anytime soon..the biggest challenge they have is extracting it due to it's location. Also sea rise would have little effect on them due to most of the coast is high rocky cliffs...its not flat coastline like Florida.
Furthermore, the recent more temperate climate has resulted in better crop yields...so the Global Warming trend has helped Norway.
It's one of Tesla's larger markets simply because its a wealthy country and thus like Americans...they too like to own status symbols of their wealth.
I think you would find that both Oslo and Bergen would be very susceptible to sea level rising. They are port cities, and the waterfront would be flooded, and a good part of the population displaced.
 

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Wiki disagrees...In comparison to other parts of the world, Norway and Svalbard will not experience any dramatic effects from a rise in sea level, as the land is still rising after the previous Ice Age and the coast is relatively steep.

The US is far more at risk...and I think the Keys would be a good barometer on how much the sea levels are rising.
 

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The E- Mustang is a much more practical daily driver....it probably would outsell the Mustang even if it was a Hybrid.
 

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You dont actually HATE Ford or Tesla do you Dave??

Thanks
Randy
No, I hate Ford AND Tesla. If it helps, I dislike Honda and Volkswagen, too, and also hate Mercedes. I have a grudging respect for Toyota and I'm never sure how I feel about BMW.

I think you know what Ford and Volkswagen have in common. I think you know what I have against Mercedes. with Honda it's the supercilious attitude of the owners and with Tesla it's 100% Musk.
 

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Fair enough, I'm surprised as an automotive writer you used the word hate.

I wouldn't own a German or Japanese vehicle for my own personal prejudices.(WW-II)

I also have a grudging respect for successful foreign manufactures but won't buy them.

Unions are something that I really dislike but only buy domestic union made vehicles.

Perceived value is something Chevrolet once excelled at but threw it all away.

Honda and Toyota enjoyed it for a long while but the Koreans are rapidly catching up.

As to Musk, I have great respect for all he accomplished in less than one lifetime.

His cars are only average, except for acceleration, but he tapped into something.

His electronic integration and strategically placed charging stations are brilliant.

His timing was also brilliant both politically and what the market was ready for.

I never watch SNL but when I heard he was on I watched, and found him funny.

As a right wing conservative on a left site, that's about all I should say.

Blessings to you and your family.

Thanks
Randy





No, I hate Ford AND Tesla. If it helps, I dislike Honda and Volkswagen, too, and also hate Mercedes. I have a grudging respect for Toyota and I'm never sure how I feel about BMW.

I think you know what Ford and Volkswagen have in common. I think you know what I have against Mercedes. with Honda it's the supercilious attitude of the owners and with Tesla it's 100% Musk.
 

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Fair enough, I'm surprised as an automotive writer you used the word hate.
Generally, the industry's decided I'm not a pro, so I don't really need to act like one.

I wouldn't own a German or Japanese vehicle for my own personal prejudices.(WW-II)
Understood. Though I think both countries have been good world citizens since the war, so I personally am not holding anything against them now... I do understand doing so. [/quote]


As to Musk, I have great respect for all he accomplished in less than one lifetime.

His cars are only average, except for acceleration, but he tapped into something.

His electronic integration and strategically placed charging stations are brilliant.

His timing was also brilliant both politically and what the market was ready for.

I never watch SNL but when I heard he was on I watched, and found him funny.

As a right wing conservative on a left site, that's about all I should say.
Thanks, Randy. My objections to Musk are:
  • Constantly taking credit for ideas that are not his, and things he didn't do
  • Sucking all the air out of the room, basically, so people with potentially better cars never got a chance
  • Constantly lying about his cars' capabilities
  • Flagrantly disobeying the early shutdown orders when they mattered most, because the law doesn't apply to him
  • Repeatedly breaking SEC rules without any punishment because he's a celebrity
  • Calling a hero a pedophile (and getting away with it thank to billionaire-class lawyers)
  • Having the absolute worst safety record of any automaker in the world
  • Lying about the safety of his cars
  • Charging people thousands in advance for a technology that his cars aren't and never can be capable of
  • Pretending to be a huge "self-made" private industry libertarian when in reality his fortune comes largely from government money and he was born to priviledge
 

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This could be a great discussion but it would probably get shut down.

Sadly, it's an over moderated site with no allowance for free discussion.

I can't comment on your position in the industry other than your very left slant.

As to Musks:
  • Constantly taking credit for ideas that are not his, and things he didn't do.
I certainly don't know all you know about him other that some books I read and TV.

I do remember when he bought Tesla from the guy who started it originally.

It was the little sports car and the owner couldn't get the 2 speed transmission to work.

Whats so complicated about a 2 speed transmission I thought ??

I found some info on it and determined it was simply a 4x4 transfer case sidewise.

Brilliant in one sense, power in and splits out to the left and right axles.

However shifting a transfer case while moving got complicated and costly.

Musk simply locked it into high range and solved an insurmountable problem.

Henry Ford wasn't all that smart but his talent was finding those who were: EG Vanadium steel.

I'm curious as to what were some ideas he took credit for that weren't his??

Thanks
Randy


Generally, the industry's decided I'm not a pro, so I don't really need to act like one.
Understood. Though I think both countries have been good world citizens since the war, so I personally am not holding anything against them now... I do understand doing so.
Thanks, Randy. My objections to Musk are:
  • Constantly taking credit for ideas that are not his, and things he didn't do
  • Sucking all the air out of the room, basically, so people with potentially better cars never got a chance
  • Constantly lying about his cars' capabilities
  • Flagrantly disobeying the early shutdown orders when they mattered most, because the law doesn't apply to him
  • Repeatedly breaking SEC rules without any punishment because he's a celebrity
  • Calling a hero a pedophile (and getting away with it thank to billionaire-class lawyers)
  • Having the absolute worst safety record of any automaker in the world
  • Lying about the safety of his cars
  • Charging people thousands in advance for a technology that his cars aren't and never can be capable of
  • Pretending to be a huge "self-made" private industry libertarian when in reality his fortune comes largely from government money and he was born to priviledge
[/QUOTE]
 
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I forgot "pretending the Model 3 starts at $35,000 while for three years not a single one under $40,000 was made." That would be illegal if GM tried it.

The main ones that come to mind are (a) boring machines, (b) vacuum maglev trains, and (c) that electric car he makes... I have to point out that vacuum maglev is so old Harry Harrison based a novel on it... in the 1970s.

“I can't comment on your position in the industry other than your very left slant.”

I’d like to know what in this discussion you found “very left.”

“Henry Ford wasn't all that smart but his talent was finding those who were: EG Vanadium steel.”

More to the point, the Dodge brothers, who redesigned his car so it would be sellable. His main “innovation” was being absolutely cut-throat in worker safety and treatment. While he paid the most with the $5/day wage, darned few people got it (those who did had to be of the right religion, have a family, consent to regular home searches, etc.); most got paid below industry norm, and if you were hurt on the job, you were bodily thrown out of the factory. But mostly, he took his wealth and used it to try to have Jews killed. The Final Solution was Henry’s before it was Hitler’s.
 

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Hi again Dave:

At least the model 3, which was supposed to be the model E, did get eventually to market.

Tesla buyers didn't mind so neither do I, folks waited over 50 yrs. for the mid Engine Corvette.

Buyers had to pay handsome premiums for the first ZR1's and many did, though not to GM's benefit.

Agreed on the Electric motor and car, they bore me completely as I love Engines!!

Maybe he'll get magnetic motion and maybe not, that stuff just doesn't interest me.

Neither do rockets and going to Mars but his rockets are certainly successful!!

The part that lands itself back on earth is beyond impressive to me.

I'm no fan of old Henry but he created an empire starting from essentially nothing.

The Dearborn Independant and ties to Adolph were reprehensible but he was a simple man.

He tried to promote Christian values, those that the finest Country God yet created is based on.

He paid a living wage so family's wouldn't have to take on boarders, an honorable idea.

He wouldn't condone or allow gambling, smoking or drinking and neither does boring old me!!

His Service department and Harry Bennett were absolutely inexcusable by today's standards.

My point was, his genius was in selecting those who could help him accomplish his vision.

Enter Horace and John: Hard drinking men with mechanical brains, ability and machinery.

Without them he may have ended up in history's trash bin but maybe not.

You haven't expressed any left views in this discussion but that's been my impression.

That doesn't bother me as I like to hear both sides of issues without personal attacks.

Historically, allpar doesn't permit free discussion or debate.

Left jabs are acceptable but any defense is eliminated.

Thanks
Randy

  • Sucking all the air out of the room, basically, so people with potentially better cars never got a chance


I forgot "pretending the Model 3 starts at $35,000 while for three years not a single one under $40,000 was made." That would be illegal if GM tried it.

The main ones that come to mind are (a) boring machines, (b) vacuum maglev trains, and (c) that electric car he makes... I have to point out that vacuum maglev is so old Harry Harrison based a novel on it... in the 1970s.

“I can't comment on your position in the industry other than your very left slant.”

I’d like to know what in this discussion you found “very left.”

“Henry Ford wasn't all that smart but his talent was finding those who were: EG Vanadium steel.”

More to the point, the Dodge brothers, who redesigned his car so it would be sellable. His main “innovation” was being absolutely cut-throat in worker safety and treatment. While he paid the most with the $5/day wage, darned few people got it (those who did had to be of the right religion, have a family, consent to regular home searches, etc.); most got paid below industry norm, and if you were hurt on the job, you were bodily thrown out of the factory. But mostly, he took his wealth and used it to try to have Jews killed. The Final Solution was Henry’s before it was Hitler’s.
 

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Hi, Randy.

Hi again Dave:

At least the model 3, which was supposed to be the model E, did get eventually to market.
Tesla buyers didn't mind so neither do I, folks waited over 50 yrs. for the mid Engine Corvette.
Buyers had to pay handsome premiums for the first ZR1's and many did, though not to GM's benefit.
My point is he lies repeatedly, over and over, to boost the stock price. He lied about autonomy being six months away, for year after year. He lied when he filmed a video for Youtube saying you can be driven by a Tesla, with a blindfold on. People died and Tesla escaped justice because judges actually think two lines in the owner's manual outweigh that video. He lied when he said you don't need both cameras and sensors, and again when he said you can have autonomy without lidar. He charged people thousands for autonomous driving that might be available someday, but won't be, because the cars can't support it. Yet somehow, in a world where Chrysler has to deal with lawsuits about "how come your car didn't protect my husband when he was driving drunk the wrong way down the road without headlights or seat belts?" (I think they lost that one, believe it or not.)

It's a lie to say you are selling a car for $35,000 and never produce one with a $35,000 price. That's not just fraud, it's also securities fraud. And it set the Chevy Bolt back a lot because the newspapers all did the comparisons of the upcoming cars and found the Bolt wanting for the same price. Well, they never were the same price...

Maybe he'll get magnetic motion and maybe not, that stuff just doesn't interest me.
The point is that many others already run maglev trains.

Neither do rockets and going to Mars but his rockets are certainly successful!!
That is true, and you know who is paying for them, right? You and I. Well, I will admit, nothing succeeds like success. Kudos to him for a good rocket program.

I'm no fan of old Henry but he created an empire starting from essentially nothing.
The Dearborn Independant and ties to Adolph were reprehensible but he was a simple man.
He tried to promote Christian values, those that the finest Country God yet created is based on.
He paid a living wage so family's wouldn't have to take on boarders, an honorable idea.
He wouldn't condone or allow gambling, smoking or drinking and neither does boring old me!!
His Service department and Harry Bennett were absolutely inexcusable by today's standards.
If you are saying Christian values include killing all Jews and beating your workers, then one of our theologies is wrong.

My point was, his genius was in selecting those who could help him accomplish his vision.

Enter Horace and John: Hard drinking men with mechanical brains, ability and machinery.

Without them he may have ended up in history's trash bin but maybe not.
You haven't expressed any left views in this discussion but that's been my impression.
Maybe the whole right/left thing is overrated. Maybe the world doesn't fit into just two categories.


Historically, allpar doesn't permit free discussion or debate.

Left jabs are acceptable but any defense is eliminated.
Give me an example that doesn't involve someone making an insult, or flat-out lying, or making something crazy divisive.
 
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