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Discussion Starter #1
Hello to all.

New to forum. Hope I can get some help with this.

Briefly... my 2003 PT cruiser LTD non turbo the speedometer was fluctuating and so was the fuel gauge, then speedometer dropped to zero, and the battery light came on as well as the check engine light.

The check engine light was starting to flash, but vehicle was driving fine.

I noticed the trip odometer ticking up when I was stopped, not moving.

See link below for faults.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nhumnuPw7nY96Whu9

Please help.

Thank you.

John

Oh I only got as far as checking my battery connections and verified my alternator is charging @ 13.7v when this occurs.
 

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Welcome to Allpar. The instrument cluster gauges and warning lights run off of the communications bus. If the bus drops out, the gauges will drop to zero and the lights will come on by default. It could be a loss of bus communication?
If the car is running fine but you have all 4 injector faults, then the codes may not be real. You could test the evap purge solenoid circuit (P0443) and if the charging system (P0662) is charging OK, then that may be false as well. The P0662 would probably bring on the battery light as it is a real or imagined charging system error. This could all be from an internal PCM defect, but you will want to diagnose this first.
http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/...2004_PL_Neon/18623-pl-powertrain_sgmldiag.pdf
By checking your battery connections, did you pull the terminals off the posts? Corrosion can hide between the posts and terminals although they look fine from the outside. Secure battery grounds and connections to the fuse/relay box are also important.
The 'ck eng' light can flash because of a recent battery disconnect if the OBDII monitors have not been run yet. The counting trip odometer means that a speed/distance signal (real or imagined) is taking place.
Try a cluster self test? If the gauges are capable of sweep, then the cluster itself may be OK:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4_1ieSVD3M&frags=pl%2Cwn
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi, thanks for the reply.

This has been happening for only 3 days now, since a heavy rain, but I found no trace of water in engine compartment or cabin. My cowl drains are inspected quite often, I clear them out when needed.

Only the speedometer and fuel gauge are affected. Coolant and tach are working normal.


Yes I did the sweep test it went through.

Question, when I did the sweep test there were FL0007, bl 00, ee 10, that came up. I'm guessing these are faults? I didnt see that happen in the video link you sent.

I will post another link with that.

Also, my pt does not have a TIPM, right?
(2006 and up?)

My battery terminals are new (8 months ago I replaced the entire batter harness and battery)

I will go over all those connections.

The car drives fine, but I do notice a lower than normal idle, 600ish , when this happens.

PCM?

Oh thanks for the manual.


Best,

John
 

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My thought, the battery light coming on points to a problem in the alternator/charging circuitry. My suspicion is the alternator may be failing and allowing an ac (alternating current) ripple. This ripple can cause some of the components to believe they have been powered off or reset and go through their power-on cycle. I have seen this in an '06 charger that would cause the instrument cluster to light up as if first turned on and also reset all of the OBD monitors.

If the check engine light came on, there should be stored codes. A good OBD reader will show you the codes as well as the one that turned on the battery lamp.

Don't blame the PCM yet; it should be one of the last items on the list to be replaced.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi, thanks for the reply.

This has been happening for only 3 days now, since a heavy rain, but I found no trace of water in engine compartment or cabin. My cowl drains are inspected quite often, I clear them out when needed.

Only the speedometer and fuel gauge are affected. Coolant and tach are working normal.


Yes I did the sweep test it went through.

Question, when I did the sweep test there were FL0007, bl 00, ee 10, that came up. I'm guessing these are faults? I didnt see that happen in the video link you sent.

I will post another link with that.

Also, my pt does not have a TIPM, right?
(2006 and up?)

My battery terminals are new (8 months ago I replaced the entire batter harness and battery)

I will go over all those connections.

The car drives fine, but I do notice a lower than normal idle, 600ish , when this happens.

PCM?

Oh thanks for the manual.


Best,

John
Hi, thanks for the reply.

This has been happening for only 3 days now, since a heavy rain, but I found no trace of water in engine compartment or cabin. My cowl drains are inspected quite often, I clear them out when needed.

Only the speedometer and fuel gauge are affected. Coolant and tach are working normal.


Yes I did the sweep test it went through.

Question, when I did the sweep test there were FL0007, bl 00, ee 10, that came up. I'm guessing these are faults? I didnt see that happen in the video link you sent.

I will post another link with that.

Also, my pt does not have a TIPM, right?
(2006 and up?)

My battery terminals are new (8 months ago I replaced the entire batter harness and battery)

I will go over all those connections.

The car drives fine, but I do notice a lower than normal idle, 600ish , when this happens.

PCM?

Oh thanks for the manual.


Best,

John
Welcome to Allpar. The instrument cluster gauges and warning lights run off of the communications bus. If the bus drops out, the gauges will drop to zero and the lights will come on by default. It could be a loss of bus communication?
If the car is running fine but you have all 4 injector faults, then the codes may not be real. You could test the evap purge solenoid circuit (P0443) and if the charging system (P0662) is charging OK, then that may be false as well. The P0662 would probably bring on the battery light as it is a real or imagined charging system error. This could all be from an internal PCM defect, but you will want to diagnose this first.
http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/manuals/Service Manuals/2004_PL_Neon/18623-pl-powertrain_sgmldiag.pdf
By checking your battery connections, did you pull the terminals off the posts? Corrosion can hide between the posts and terminals although they look fine from the outside. Secure battery grounds and connections to the fuse/relay box are also important.
The 'ck eng' light can flash because of a recent battery disconnect if the OBDII monitors have not been run yet. The counting trip odometer means that a speed/distance signal (real or imagined) is taking place.
Try a cluster self test? If the gauges are capable of sweep, then the cluster itself may be OK:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4_1ieSVD3M&frags=pl%2Cwn

Here is the link for the cluster reset... what do you think those codes are.

I checked all batter cable connections.

I checked the generator field wire from PCM to alternator connector, no opens or shorts.

The manual you sent does not have my 2.4 NA in it, plus I dont have a DRBII.

I will check Ebay for a DRBII

https://photos.app.goo.gl/StAqSBagfYEzLhVL9
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My thought, the battery light coming on points to a problem in the alternator/charging circuitry. My suspicion is the alternator may be failing and allowing an ac (alternating current) ripple. This ripple can cause some of the components to believe they have been powered off or reset and go through their power-on cycle. I have seen this in an '06 charger that would cause the instrument cluster to light up as if first turned on and also reset all of the OBD monitors.

If the check engine light came on, there should be stored codes. A good OBD reader will show you the codes as well as the one that turned on the battery lamp.

Don't blame the PCM yet; it should be one of the last items on the list to be replaced.
Hi, thanks for the reply.

Please look at the 2 links.

And my last reply to Imperial Crown.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nhumnuPw7nY96Whu9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/StAqSBagfYEzLhVL9


Best,

John
 

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Most tests can be done with a volt-ohmeter. The Neon manual should be close enough for troubleshoot info.
Wet connectors, like the underdash DLC can shutdown the bus if they get splashed. Aerosol brake cleaner or similar solvent is a good connector dryer.
 

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Ok. Sounds good.

Where are the CAN buss connectors?

DLC, is that the OBDII port?

I looked at the price of a DRB. Lol $$$.

Also those codes with the cluster sweep test are normal for PT.

Best,

John.
 

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Those numbers that came up in the odometer during the test are likely hardware/software version numbers, not diagnostic fault codes. The DLC is the underdash OBDII diagnostic connector.
You don't want to buy an advanced scan tool for this one problem. If you owned a shop and used the DRB daily, it might be worth the cost and eventually pay for itself.
Sometimes a good scan tool can be rented or borrowed if you know the right people. A shop diagnostic fee is worth paying if you need to find a good starting point and answer some diagnostic questions. It may provide enough information to complete a successful repair youself.
2003 wasn't CAN bus yet, that happened in 2006. Yours is still PCI bus.
The bus terminates at the DLC and the various modules that need to communicate with each other: PCM, TCM, ABS, AIRBAG, cluster (MIC), radio, BCM, etc. You would want a wiring diagram of the car for the layout.
 

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Probably a stupid suggestion, but I'd remove the air filter box and check the 7 ground wires on the inside of the driver side fender. This is a known problem area on the PT's as the close proximity to the battery gases can cause corrosion and ground failure in these ground wires. It's worth a shot. Remove the screws and check each wire, clean them and the screws and reconnect.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
UPDATE......

The entire batter harness is new, all connections good no corrosion.

I checked the generator field wire from PCM to alternator, no shorts or open.

Then I did a ripple test on alt.

30 to 40 mv, reved engine, started to climb to 150mv, then to 250mv, back to 20mv.

Charging voltage 13.65 unloaded, 13.8 loaded.

Since doing these tests the problem has dissapeared for 2 days now. 120 miles of driving.

Possible bad alternator? 250mv spike too high?

Will keep you updated.

Best,

John
 

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A very good question about how much ripple is allowed. 250 mv=1/4 volt. Many auto parts stores give a comprehensive battery/charging/starting test with an all-in-one tool that gives a printout at the end.
The Advance Auto near me will do it right in the parking lot if a counter person is available.
It does check for ripple on the car and gives a spec. Electrical noise can be one of those 'hidden' factors that can cause all kinds of weird symptoms with solid-state modules and sensitive electronics.
 

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A very good question about how much ripple is allowed. 250 mv=1/4 volt. Many auto parts stores give a comprehensive battery/charging/starting test with an all-in-one tool that gives a printout at the end.
The Advance Auto near me will do it right in the parking lot if a counter person is available.
It does check for ripple on the car and gives a spec. Electrical noise can be one of those 'hidden' factors that can cause all kinds of weird symptoms with solid-state modules and sensitive electronics.
OK thank you

There is an Advance Auto Parts next to me I'll bring it there and have him do a check as well see what we come up with .

Also it's going to rain very hard tonight so I'll see what happens in the morning as well.

Thanks for all your help eventually I'll get to the bottom of this

Best,

John
 

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Hello New to the forum thanks for having me.. I don't know if this will be of any help, my 2002 pt had a full tank of gas and it read empty....make a long story short check under the top motor mount on the passenger side and way up and under and on the inner fender I found 3 ground wires and 1 was broken off the terminal end,. I attached a new ground wire and now my gas gauge works fine now.. these ground wires are had to see/find so with a bright flash look long and hard..miller
 

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Hello New to the forum thanks for having me.. I don't know if this will be of any help, my 2002 pt had a full tank of gas and it read empty....make a long story short check under the top motor mount on the passenger side and way up and under and on the inner fender I found 3 ground wires and 1 was broken off the terminal end,. I attached a new ground wire and now my gas gauge works fine now.. these ground wires are had to see/find so with a bright flash look long and hard..miller
It really makes you wonder, why they had to bury those grounds on the right side, why couldn't they make them a little more accessible, a lot of important components are on those grounds (G104) o_O:eek::rolleyes:;):)







At least on the left side you can easily get to the grounds, just have to remove the airbox which is no big deal. :)
 
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Grounds are typically kept as short as possible.
 

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Grounds are typically kept as short as possible.
That might make some sense as most of the components on G104 are located on the right side of the vehicle and within close proximity of the engine compartment.

The only exception to that is the "fuel pump module".

Is that the actual fuel pump that's located inside the fuel tank, or another component that drives the fuel pump? ;)

If it's the actual fuel pump, then IMO, that's quite some distance to to bring the ground for it. o_O:rolleyes::eek::D:p;):)
 

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Digital grounds are more critical to keep short, the only real issue with analog power such as the pump is the resistance of the wire over distance, and you just select the wire gauge that is acceptable.
 

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