[TWX]

Okay, the point of this is to help reduce the confusion in which engines and which transmissions had which compatible bolt patterns. This is principally of concern to engine swappers, especially in light of the increasing availability of 5.7L Hemi engines and others for swaps into older cars, but it could come in handy for people working on front wheel drive cars (like a 2.2L to 2.4L swap), and it's probably just good information to have.

Anything that you can contribute, ie, which engines have the same patterns, engines not on the list, names of patterns, and even transmissions themselves with common patterns, would be much appreciated.

As information is posted I or another interested moderator will modify the topmost post to reflect that information.

 

[Wizard]

I'm also looking for CAD or drawing for housing pattern of chrysler 2.2/2.5. I have found the CAD drawing for TDI 1.9 diesel engine bell housing pattern. WHen I do have both, then can make a adapter to put TDI 1.9 on the chrysler 2.2/2.5 transmission.

Cheers, Wizard

 

[Trailmaster]

At least some of the patterns are an SAE pattern, I'm not sure which but will research this some. If all else fails, my dad knows the SAE patttern numbers for some of the older engines and I can ask him.

If I'm recalling what I've heard correctly for some of the older engines, Chrysler used the same bell housing pattern on the Dodge, Desoto and Chrysler Polys and Hemis EXCEPT for the 1951 to 1953 331c.i. Hemi. All the older polys and hemis used the same pattern as the LA, but the older hemis had the dowel pins in different locations, by removing the dowel pins you can bolt an LA bell housing to the older hemis. The 331 was an extended block similar to a lot of industrial engines of the era, and used one of the SAE round patterns.

I've also heard the 426 uses the same bolt pattern but the centerline of the input shaft is different.

 

[135SoHc]

The 4.7 is a V8 just a typo I'm sure though

To add something. The 2.2/2.5 K engine and the 2.0/2.4 'Neon' engine share an almost identical bolt pattern. The biggest difference I'm aware of is the starter motor location being on the front for a 2.4 vs on the back for the 2.2. and 1 bolt hole on the transmission side being off. but it allows a newer 2.4 to be bolted up with an older 2.2/2.5 transmission.

A525, A520, A555, A523, A568 all use the same pattern for the K engine.

Jeep bellhousing guide Tons of info and lots of pictures.

 

[Trailmaster]

Didn't even think about Jeep engines, but it might not hurt to add them to the list since they are adopted into the Mopar family. I'll get busy with my Jeep links and pull up some of that info, as I spent a good deal of time researching flywheel patterns not too long ago, and bellhousing info is usually found in the same places.

I do know that all the Gen III V8s (67 and later 290, 304, 343, 360, 390, and 401) share the same pattern and bellhousings.

 

[dana44]

Not to hijack the post or anything like that, but I am also interested in the FWD engines and the RWD tranny that will work with it, or at least an adapter available to make them work.

I know the 3.5 has a RWD tranny, but is the pattern the same as the 727/904 SB?

Anything a 2.0/2.4 and 2.2/2.5 can be bolted to for RWD, or adapter to anything RWD? It could also be a manual application.

I would even be happy if a 700R4 was adaptable to the engines to allow RWD.

The other idea would be any kind of torque tube design/avialability so the N/S tranny can be used in the rear of a car and the engine in the front (as in the 3.5) to allow RWD and IRS at the same time. This one is a little more complicated, may be a lot more work than it is worth, but just a thought.

Oh, and the 6th one down, shouldn't it be 2.0 and 2.4, including 2.4 turbo (which used a Getrag manual tranny instead of NV in the manual application).

 

[Trailmaster]

Jeep info that I cross referenced from as many sources as I could.

151 (2.5L) I4 “iron duke” uses a Chevy small block bell housing pattern
232('71 newer)/258 I6 AMC uses the same pattern as the Gen III V8s
199/232(‘70 back) I6 AMC uses its own bell housing pattern
225 V6 “dauntless” uses the “Buick” pattern bell housing
327 V8 AMC engine uses its own bell housing pattern

 

[valiant67]

• need pattern name, if any - Chrysler Neon/Powertech engine 2.0L, 2.4L I4
  
• need pattern name, if any - Is this the same pattern as the LA engines use? 2.7L V6, 3.2L V6, 3.5L V6
• need pattern name, if any - 3.3L V6, 3.8L V6

Fixed one typo.
Also, I believe the 2.7/3.5/3.5 is the same bolt pattern as the 3.3/3.8 in FWD applications though I've never found out 100% for sure.

Also keep in mind a 5.2/5.9 Magnum engine in a Jeep is a different bolt pattern than the same engine in a Dodge truck or van.

And that the crank position sensors changed sometimes meaning that a transmission that will physically bolt up may still have problems with a particular engine..

 

[valiant67]

Anything a 2.0/2.4 and 2.2/2.5 can be bolted to for RWD, or adapter to anything RWD? It could also be a manual application.

The 2.2 and the 2.5 were used in a RWD application with a manual transmission, the 1987-1995 Dodge Dakota.

 

[TWX]

Fixed the typos...

Jeep info that I cross referenced from as many sources as I could.

151 (2.5L) I4 “iron duke” uses a Chevy small block bell housing pattern
232('71 newer)/258 I6 AMC uses the same pattern as the Gen III V8s
199/232(‘70 back) I6 AMC uses its own bell housing pattern
225 V6 “dauntless” uses the “Buick” pattern bell housing
327 V8 AMC engine uses its own bell housing pattern

Which engines are AMC Gen III V8s? 401, AMC 360? Are there more/different?

Were any of these sourced whole from another company like GM?

The "Iron Duke" I4 is the one that continued through even a year or two in the Dakota in the late nineties?

Just trying to get this all straight before I update the list.

 

[dana44]

The 2.2 and the 2.5 were used in a RWD application with a manual transmission, the 1987-1995 Dodge Dakota.

THIS is the kind of information I was looking for, thanks. Now, the question is, wasn't it the Jeep 2.5 engine vice the 2.2/2.5 engine the one in the Dakota, or is the bolt pattern the same? If it is, not a problem, but if it isn't.....

Was there an automatic put behind the 2.5 in the Dakota, or were they all manuals? And I take it the manual is different bolt pattern than the 3.9 V6?

Now a new question is:

Is the 727/904 tranny boltpattern the same as the newer small block bolt pattern? Trying to determine whether a 3.5 could get a 904, or whether one of the other overdrive trannys can attach to it to have more gears for overdrive. Figuring that if the 3.5 in a 300/charger sedan is the same, a 904 could be used behind it safely.

 

[Trailmaster]

Which engines are AMC Gen III V8s? 401, AMC 360? Are there more/different?

Were any of these sourced whole from another company like GM?

The "Iron Duke" I4 is the one that continued through even a year or two in the Dakota in the late nineties?

Just trying to get this all straight before I update the list.

Gen III AMC V8s are all the AMC V8s produced from 67 on, displacements are 290, 304, 343, 360, 390, and 401. There were some differences in balance and crank issues among them, but the bellhousings are all the same. IIRC Gen II was the AMC 327 (not GM), and Gen I was the original AMC V8 produced in the 50s.

The iron duke was a GM engine, but too my knowledge AMC hasn't sourced a V8 from an outside manufacturer since the days of Packard engines in the 50s. Kaiser did use a Buick engines in the Jeeps in the 60s but that was discontinued when AMC took over.

The 225 V6 was a Buick engine design, but the tooling was bought from GM and manufactured till 74 if my memory serves, then GM bought the tooling back from AMC and modified it later in the 70s, I'm thinking the later GM version is called the odd fire V6.

 

[TWX]

So, there is obviously the K 2.5 I4, the GM "Iron Duke" 2.5 I4, and the AMC 2.5 I4 that was common in Wranglers and also saw service in the Dakota after the K engine was discontinued.

On the k engine in the Dakota, to my knowledge it was only used with a manual. I do not know about the AMC engine though.

Can anyone confirm the similarity between the K and Powertech bellhousings? That would mean a possibility of replacing the 2.5 in a Dakota with a 2.4 turbo out of a neon or PT GT if one is willing to do the work...

I can confirm that the 5.7 uses the same pattern as the LA/Magnum engines

 

[Trailmaster]

So, there is obviously the K 2.5 I4, the GM "Iron Duke" 2.5 I4, and the AMC 2.5 I4 that was common in Wranglers and also saw service in the Dakota after the K engine was discontinued.

I don't know anything about the K 2.5, but AMC just bought the 2.5 from GM, so it's the same engine.

 

[TWX]

Wikipedia shows that the Iron Duke was replaced by an AMC-designed engine built off of the designs for the AMC inline sixes. Granted, it's wikipedia, but more information on the family would be good.

I'll continue seeing what I can find.

 

[Trailmaster]

I'll go back through the links, I just browsed for bell housing info, I've never really looked to see much for details on 4 cyls, as my Jeep has a Gen III V8.

Edited info
GM(Pontiac) "iron duke" 151(2.5l) was used from 80-83 in CJ5/7/8 and was manufactured by GM
AMC 150 (2.5l) is an AMC engine and was introduced in 84, apparently still in use today.
Also found mention of another V8 used by Jeep in 69/70 made by Buick, 350 ci, and also called the Dauntless.

http://www.jeepfan.com/tech/jeeptech/engine-factory.htm

 

[dana44]

This is getting fun!!!!! I love it!!!!

We actually have three basic categories here: 4/V6/V8 (A/LA/Magnum/new Hemi, and B/RB/426 and derivitives Hemi aftermarket).
We can stick the 3.9 into the LA small bolt pattern tranny, and with this, I think it is safe to say that ALL the derived 727/904/A500 (and all the other numbered transmissions in the automatic category) DO or DO NOT have the same bolt pattern (exception is the diesel applications).

Is this a true statement? (electronic wiring is a separate issue).

I can see this being a giant spreadsheet at some point.

Here's a good one I have no idea about.

The Prowler transaxle (engine was in the front, transmission and rear end in the rear, torque tube in between). Is there a torque tube design/plans out there (or something adaptable) so ths could be done with other than the Prowler?

I was looking around for adapters, and needless to say, there isn't much of anything, and I found nothing in the FWD engines adaptable to RWD tranny of any brand.

 

[135SoHc]

On the k engine in the Dakota, to my knowledge it was only used with a manual.

Going by fueleconomy.gov in 87/88 the Dakota was offered with the 2.2 K engine and only with a 5 speed transmission. 89+ shows the 2.5 K engine being offered with both 5 speed stick and 4 speed automatic.

and I found the page I was looking for. to adapt a K engine transmission to a 2.0/2.4

 

[TWX]

I've added updates. Should be better. Please obviously sanity-check me as I'm a little brained, trying to juggle five or six different sources of info on web pages plus Allpar's new interface...