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szegecs said:
köszönöm
No; I don't speak Hungarian (although I understand a few words) despite my father being from Szeged. :)
 

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kerrymann said:
Thanks. That is what I wanted to hear. I ordered a AX15 from a 95 dakota today with bellhousing and shifter. I'll let you know how it goes.

My next step is finding a clutch that can handle +350 ftlbs of torque. :)
So first of all I can confirm without a doubt that 93-95 dakota bellhousing will fit a AX15 to a old 2.2L/2.5L motor. Yay! Thanks again.

The problem now is getting a high torque clutch. SPEC makes them up to Stage 5 but it seems like they are not making them anymore. There are a ton of other options for the V6 and V8 motors. Theoretically if it fit one of the V6 or V8 flywheels I should be able to use those clutches but I have no way of know if the V6 or V8 flywheel will fit the 2.2/2.5L crank.
 

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bringing back a valuable thread here with a question. new to the forum and have read through this thread and am wondering on thing i have a 78 cj7 with a 4.2 i6 that is at least an 83 since it is serp belt, with the 904 behind it. does that 904 share the same bell housing pattern as the chevy v8s or just the amc motor family. thanks for any answers and this great thread.
 

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Pretty sure the Chevy V8s are different from the AMC bolt pattern, which is different from the Mopar bolt pattern. For some reason when AMC got 727 and 904s, they had a different bolt pattern to them, too.
 

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I'm also looking for CAD or drawing for housing pattern of chrysler 2.2/2.5. I have found the CAD drawing for TDI 1.9 diesel engine bell housing pattern. WHen I do have both, then can make a adapter to put TDI 1.9 on the chrysler 2.2/2.5 transmission.

Cheers, Wizard
The Old Direct Connection Chassis Book P4349341 has a chapter on Mopar engine swaps and has blue print drawings for 4,6,and 8 cylinder bell housings. Martin
 

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Engine bellhousing patterns:

  • Chrysler Extended Block Pattern - 1951-1954 331 in³ industrial-use Hemi V8
  • G/RG Pattern - G Engine (Slant Six) 170, 198, 225
  • B/RB Pattern - B/RB Engine 350, 361, 383B, 383RB, 400, 413, 426 Wedge, 426 HEMI, 440, aftermarket 472, aftermarket 528
  • A/LA/Modern Hemi Pattern - 1950s-1967 Semi-hemi A-series 241, 260, 270, Plymouth A-series 277, 301, 303, 313, 318, Red Ram A-series 326, LA Engine 273, 318('66), 340, 360, 238ci(3.9 LA) aftermarket W2 program, aftermarket 408, Magnum ('92+) 5.2L, 5.9L, 3.9L Magnum, 8.0L V10, 8.3 V10, 8.4 V10, 3.7L V6, 4.7L V8, 5.7L V8, 6.1L V8, 2.8L CRD Turbo Diesel
  • need pattern name, if any - Chrysler K engine 2.2L, 2.5L I4
  • need pattern name, if any - Chrysler Neon/Powertech engine 2.0L, 2.4L I4
  • need pattern name, if any - Mitsubishi 2.5L V6, 3.0L V6
  • need pattern name, if any - Apparently not the same pattern as LA 2.7L V6, 3.2L V6, 3.3L V6, 3.5L V6, 3.8L V6, 4.0L V6 (maybe on 3.3 and 3.8)
  • need pattern name, if any - Cummins 5.9L 12 Valve Diesel, Cummins 5.9L 24 Valve Diesel, Cummins 6.7L Diesel
  • Chevrolet V8 Pattern - GM Iron Duke 2.5L I4 used in AMC/Jeep 1980-1983. Chrysler 904 was produced with this pattern
  • GM Metric Pattern - AMC/Jeep 2.5L I4, GM 2.8L V6 in AMC/Jeep. Also called GM 60 Degree Pattern
  • AMC Gen II/III V8 - 88-99 Jeep 4.0L L6, AMC 290/304/343/360/390/401 V8 and any 72 and later 232 L6 and 258 L6, Gen II 326 V8
  • AMC Gen I V8 - AMC Gen I

Transmissions with cast-bellhousing patterns, rear wheel drive:
Chrysler A-727/36RH/37RH:
  • G/RG
  • B/RB
  • A/LA/Modern Hemi
  • AMC Gen II/III V8
  • GM Metric Pattern? - Dakota in '96+ with AMC 2.5L I4? Other legacy Jeep/AMC?
Chrysler A-904/30RH, A-909 (904 with lockup TC), A-998/31RH, A-999/32RH:
  • G/RG
  • A/LA/Modern Hemi
  • Chevrolet V8
  • GM Metric Pattern
  • AMC Gen II/III V8
A-518/46RH/46RE:
  • A/LA/Modern Hemi
  • any more?
A-500/42RH/42RE/40RE/44RE:
  • A/LA/Modern Hemi
  • GM Metric Pattern? - Dakota in '96+ with AMC 2.5L I4?
  • any more?
A-618/47RH/47RE/48RE:
  • Cummins applications need name of pattern
  • A/LA/Modern Hemi (for Dodge Truck iron V10)
  • any more?
45RFE:
  • A/LA/Modern Hemi
  • any more?
545RFE:
  • A/LA/Modern Hemi
  • any more?
68RFE:
  • info?
Transmissions with cast-bellhousing patterns, Front Wheel Drive:
A-404:
  • need info
A-413:
  • need info
A-470:
  • need info
A-670:
  • need info
A-604/41TE/41AE:
  • "573" cast into bellhousing for 2.5L (presumably K engine)
  • "631" cast into bellhousing for 3.0L (presumably Mitsubishi V6)
  • "577" cast into bellhousing for 3.3L Chrysler V6 Possibly same pattern for 3.8L V6, 3.2L V6, 2.7L V6, and 3.5L V6.
  • need more info
A-606/42LE/42RLE:
  • need info
40TES/41TES:
  • need info
62TE:
  • need info
A470 is an A413 but with the bell housing bolt pattern for the Mitsu 2.6 and in the minivan the starter was on the front side of the engine.
 

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Just to toss some sand and water into the intake:

'm reasonably sure the Phoenix V6 engines use a new bolt pattern.

I've read (probably here on Allpar) that V8 and V6 block (or was it transmission?) designs were modified, starting in 2011 to accommodate the change.

In other words, an older V8, V6 or transmission will not mate up to a 2011+ counterpart, and vice versa.
 

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I believe the 3.6/3.2 Phoenix engine was used in pretty much everything from 2011 on up. If it's a 3.6, then it will not bolt up to a legacy transmission.
Wrangler held onto the old "minivan" 3.8 through the 2011 model year.
 
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Wikipedia shows that the Iron Duke was replaced by an AMC-designed engine built off of the designs for the AMC inline sixes. Granted, it's wikipedia, but more information on the family would be good.

I'll continue seeing what I can find.
Jeep info that I cross referenced from as many sources as I could.

151 (2.5L) I4 “iron duke” uses a Chevy small block bell housing pattern
232('71 newer)/258 I6 AMC uses the same pattern as the Gen III V8s
199/232(‘70 back) I6 AMC uses its own bell housing pattern
225 V6 “dauntless” uses the “Buick” pattern bell housing
327 V8 AMC engine uses its own bell housing pattern
The 2.2 and the 2.5 were used in a RWD application with a manual transmission, the 1987-1995 Dodge Dakota.
Fixed the typos...



Which engines are AMC Gen III V8s? 401, AMC 360? Are there more/different?

Were any of these sourced whole from another company like GM?

The "Iron Duke" I4 is the one that continued through even a year or two in the Dakota in the late nineties?

Just trying to get this all straight before I update the list.
THIS is the kind of information I was looking for, thanks. Now, the question is, wasn't it the Jeep 2.5 engine vice the 2.2/2.5 engine the one in the Dakota, or is the bolt pattern the same? If it is, not a problem, but if it isn't.....

Was there an automatic put behind the 2.5 in the Dakota, or were they all manuals? And I take it the manual is different bolt pattern than the 3.9 V6?

Now a new question is:

Is the 727/904 tranny boltpattern the same as the newer small block bolt pattern? Trying to determine whether a 3.5 could get a 904, or whether one of the other overdrive trannys can attach to it to have more gears for overdrive. Figuring that if the 3.5 in a 300/charger sedan is the same, a 904 could be used behind it safely.
So, there is obviously the K 2.5 I4, the GM "Iron Duke" 2.5 I4, and the AMC 2.5 I4 that was common in Wranglers and also saw service in the Dakota after the K engine was discontinued.

On the k engine in the Dakota, to my knowledge it was only used with a manual. I do not know about the AMC engine though.

Can anyone confirm the similarity between the K and Powertech bellhousings? That would mean a possibility of replacing the 2.5 in a Dakota with a 2.4 turbo out of a neon or PT GT if one is willing to do the work...

I can confirm that the 5.7 uses the same pattern as the LA/Magnum engines
I don't know anything about the K 2.5, but AMC just bought the 2.5 from GM, so it's the same engine.
Wikipedia shows that the Iron Duke was replaced by an AMC-designed engine built off of the designs for the AMC inline sixes. Granted, it's wikipedia, but more information on the family would be good.

I'll continue seeing what I can find.
I'm kinda late to this thread, but this info is sorta-kinda-wrong and sorta-kinda-right. I've been junkyarding and jeeping for q
 

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oh darn it, my computer screwed up and pre-emptively posted that.

... uite some time, and here's the straight dope on 4 cylinder RWD stuff like that.
The Iron Duke was used in jeeps until 83. It was a 60 degree GM corporate metric V6 bolt pattern as it was designed to be the "poverty spec" motor for vehicles that came with V6s normally.
The AMC 2.5 was designed to almost be a drop-in replacement for it. I don't know if the motor mount pads are in the same places or anything, but the bellhousing pattern is the same 60 degree GM pattern as the Iron Duke it replaced. It was the economy spec engine for Cherokees beginning in 84, the luxo spec being the 2.8 V6 GM engine (gross... gutless and unreliable) with the same bellhousing pattern.
The Dakota used the K car pattern w/ 2.2 and 2.5 cylinder K car engines until 95.
In 96, with the K car discontinued, Chrysler decided that since they were still producing the old AMC 4 to go in XJs and YJs and soon TJs, they would just have a new bellhousing cast for the AX15 (the jeeps used AX5s with the 4 cyl - it was unreliable at stock 4 cylinder power levels, I regularly see them with stripped gear teeth on 3rd and sometimes even 2nd) to mate it to the AMC 2.5. So yes, in 1996 Chrysler was using a V6 GM bellhousing pattern in their trucks with a 4 cylinder that AMC designed.

That continued through 01, when I believe the AMC 2.5 was finally discontinued.

Any other questions, just ask. I memorize way too much of this stuff.
 

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Is there any way either I or a moderator could combine those two posts? I'm not used to this forum software and I don't see an edit or delete button anywhere, sorry.

Addition - the Iron Duke and AMC 2.5 DO NOT use an SBC V8 bolt pattern, as the first post of the thread lists. That was the main point of my rambling answer and I completely forgot to include it, sorry. They use the 60 degree GM corporate V6 pattern.

The only engine that I know of (other than V8 GM engines of all sizes, shapes, and colors) that uses the SBC V8 pattern is the 4.3 liter V6 motor they make. To make things confusing, being GM, they also made a 4.3 liter V8 (which uses the V8 pattern of course), a 305ci V6 (don't know what pattern it uses), and a 3800cc 90 degree V6 that uses the 60 degree V6 bolt pattern.
 

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The Pontiac Iron Duke 2.5 L 4 cylinder Engine

A friend has one in a RWD AMC car (Spirit ) years ago and he claimed it had a SBC bell housing.

Thanks
Randy
 

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The Pontiac Iron Duke 2.5 L 4 cylinder Engine

A friend has one in a RWD AMC car (Spirit ) years ago and he claimed it had a SBC bell housing.

Thanks
Randy
I don't claim to know anything about the Pontiac one, if there were indeed different ones, but the AMC 2.5 I just gave away a few months ago definitely had the 60 degree pattern on it, and I've bolted 96-01 Dakota 4cyl bellhousings (also use the AMC motor) and 96-01 Dakota 4cyl engines into 80s MJs and early 90s YJs with stock 4cyl engines and transmissions respectively. And Wikipedia and that (unfortunately now dead) jeeps offroad thread linked in the original post do agree with this, so I suspect he might have forgotten exactly what it was over the years.

PS - that brings up another fun fact... the Northstar from 90s cadillacs and the LS4 from 00s transverse-mount Impala SS models both have very similar bellhousing patterns to the GM 60 degree V6 pattern, as they were intended to bolt to transaxles mostly based off of V6 transverse models. You can easily bolt them to RWD transmissions from 4cyl 96-01 Dakotas, but it gets complicated when you try to mount a starter and/or partsbin together your flywheel/clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing setup.
 

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All Iron Dukes are Pontiac Engines as they are based on the Pontiac 301 V8.

The first ones were all RWD (1977) and were so named as they replaced the Chevrolet 2300 Engine.

The troublesome Vega 2300 featured an aluminum block with cast iron cylinder head.

The Iron Duke moniker was a considered shot at the Engine it replaced.

I believe all the early RWD versions had the SBC bell housing.

After the 2.8 V6 was introduced the Iron Duke started sharing the same bellhousing.

Thanks
Randy
 

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1986 LeBaron convertible, 2.2L T2 with A413. 1989 J convertible dash and console modified to fit.
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Actually, the Iron Duke was a reintroduction of the 1962 Chevy II 153 ci 4 cyl engine, just updated. As a result it had the Chevrolet standard 6 bolt pattern on the back of the block. GM built a number of "universal case" automatics for a number of years, it seems the dowel pins and two bottom bolt holes were common in location to Chevy and the BOP engines, just above the dowel pins it changed. Chevy had the lower and second bolts in a vertical line over and under the dowel pin on each side, then slanted in at a 45° angle parallel to the block deck where the third bolt was placed about halfway to the "peak", BOP blocks started slanting the pattern in at the dowel pin and ended up with dual "peaks" where the third bolt on each side sits. Universal cases had 10 bolt holes in them so they would fit either block.
 
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