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Consumer Reports is not a valued source. They have a built-in bias.

I doubt that they are lying, but most likely are stretching the truth so their members can feel better about hating American made vehicles while driving their Toyotas.

Regardless, the entire press release about these tests was revealed to be marketing hype as most auto manufacturers conduct similar quality control checks.
Absolutely agree! One reason I dropped subscription to that rag over 30 years ago. ANYTHING pretty much made by DCJR will ALWAYS get a pooh-pooh rating from them. Things that will be ignored on other makes are amplified for their critiques. Reading other reviews saying CRAP like "the Dodge V6 engine felt old" really piss me off! So, Toyota, GM, Nissan, and even Honda, have all been using V6s that are WELL over 10 years old by design, yet not a damn peep about "old, outdated" engines used there??? All comparable HP and torque V6s that have been around for a while.

I used to turn to CR for reviews on things like appliances, electronics, etc., but now not even for those. Accuracy is for crap. Things they've highly rated I've tried and found to be a POS. For tires, I go to multiple sites like TireRack, Discount, or others, to narrow my choices, then weigh the features/prices/ratings.
 

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Consumer Reports is not a valued source. They have a built-in bias.

I doubt that they are lying, but most likely are stretching the truth so their members can feel better about hating American made vehicles while driving their Toyotas.

Regardless, the entire press release about these tests was revealed to be marketing hype as most auto manufacturers conduct similar quality control checks.
Absolutely agree! One reason I dropped subscription to that rag over 30 years ago. ANYTHING pretty much made by DCJR will ALWAYS get a pooh-pooh rating from them. Things that will be ignored on other makes are amplified for their critiques. Reading other reviews saying CRAP like "the Dodge V6 engine felt old" really piss me off! So, Toyota, GM, Nissan, and even Honda, have all been using V6s that are WELL over 10 years old by design, yet not a damn peep about "old, outdated" engines used there??? All comparable HP and torque V6s that have been around for a while.

I used to turn to CR for reviews on things like appliances, electronics, etc., but now not even for those. Accuracy is for crap. Things they've highly rated I've tried and found to be a POS. For tires, I go to multiple sites like TireRack, Discount, or others, to narrow my choices, then weigh the features/prices/ratings.
I find these comments amusing because everyone ignores CR when they say positive things about American cars. They've released glowing reviews of the RAM 1500 and they rated the Tesla Model 3 as a Top Pick (lingering Autopilot concerns aside), and those are about as American as you can get. They also liked GM's Supercruise and the Mustang Mach-E.
 

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Discussion Starter · #103 ·
I wonder if the Android basis of the new UConnect is causing problems. They used to have a Blackberry-developed hardened-BSD UNIX system. It's not just a question of "Is Android as good as Blackberry’s version of BSD" but also one of "Did we forget to make needed changes to our apps, because Linux and UNIX are not identical?"

Unless it's hardware issues.
 

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I find these comments amusing because everyone ignores CR when they say positive things about American cars. They've released glowing reviews of the RAM 1500 and they rated the Tesla Model 3 as a Top Pick (lingering Autopilot concerns aside), and those are about as American as you can get. They also liked GM's Supercruise and the Mustang Mach-E.
Yes, we typically do not cite CR even when they have good things to say about our products.

Tesla has a horrible quality record. For CR to make it a top pick illustrates their inconsistency and bias.
 
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Yes, we typically do not cite CR even when they have good things to say about our products.

Tesla has a horrible quality record. For CR to make it a top pick illustrates their inconsistency and bias.
They've pulled the Model 3's recommendation at times due its reliability record and safety equipment concerns, which you can see in one instance here: Satisfying, but not so reliable: Tesla Model 3 joins ranks of enthusiast cars

The reliability of Model 3 improved enough since then to be recommended in its current state. If anything, this shows they are consistent about their bar they require to be recommended.
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
They've pulled the Model 3's recommendation at times due its reliability record and safety equipment concerns, which you can see in one instance here: Satisfying, but not so reliable: Tesla Model 3 joins ranks of enthusiast cars

The reliability of Model 3 improved enough since then to be recommended in its current state. If anything, this shows they are consistent about their bar they require to be recommended.
Has it really improved? From every other measure they are still pretty bad.
 

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Seen on the Gladiator forum today:

"Traded our 20 Durango in on one of the new Grand Cherokee Ls on Thursday. So far regretting it. The first day we had it at 45 miles the service 4wd light came on then we stopped and restarted the car a couple times and it went away. Had them run diagnostics on it and they saw it tripped and thought it was a software glitch, they said it it happens again to call. Next day it happens again and my wife noticed it binding up when she would turn the wheels while the light was one. Shut it off and it went away again. So its in the dealer this morning for the second time in under of week of ownership. Also not thrilled with the new 10" Uconnect's in these, its been very glitch compared to the 8" in my Gladiator or Durango. The skip song switch on the steering wheel only works some of the time and its been freezing the radio when I try to connect to car play and I have to turn the car on and off to reset it. "
There are RRT's for both concerns, that should have been done prior to delivery...
 

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Mods please move this if it's in the wrong place. What is made of this latest rumor?


I truly hope that Stellantis takes a very close look at the GME-6 before releasing it. FCA has a spotty reputation with powertrains. This engine needs to be right from the start and not beta tested on customers.
 

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Jeep® Quietly Discontinues Its Quadra-Lift Suspension For The Grand Cherokee L:
We reached out to Jeep for the official reason why the Quadra-Lift suspension was quickly removed from the lineup. “Chip constraints have necessitated some changes to available equipment on the 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L. If a vehicle was built without the equipment, the U.S. Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) was adjusted accordingly to reflect a reduction in overall cost”, a Jeep spokesperson told us.
For those who purchased an Overland or Summit (Summit Reserve) model, will now get a $750 credit for the option not being available. There is no word of when the option will be reinstated for ordering availability. With the latest word of the semi-conductor shortage lasting well into 2023, it is unknown if the change is temporary or will continue into the 2022 model year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 ·
I truly hope that Stellantis takes a very close look at the GME-6 before releasing it. FCA has a spotty reputation with powertrains. This engine needs to be right from the start and not beta tested on customers.
Which is sad given Chrysler did not have a spotty reputation with powertrains, 2.2 head gaskets notwithstanding.
 

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Or Ultradrive transmissions, or Cummins auto equipped trucks from 89 to 06.
Point made. Chrysler did not have a spotty reputation for motors.
 
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I believe they need more testing.

 

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I believe they need more testing.


The NHTSA web site has numerous complaints already filed regarding the new Jeep Cherokee L stalling while being driven, and not being able to be re started - many with less than 1,000 miles on the vehicle. Not a good sign.
 

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The NHTSA web site has numerous complaints already filed regarding the new Jeep Cherokee L stalling while being driven, and not being able to be re started - many with less than 1,000 miles on the vehicle. Not a good sign.
Same thing is plaguing the Wrangler 4xe also. Sounds like they need to hire programmers.
 

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Same thing is plaguing the Wrangler 4xe also. Sounds like they need to hire programmers.
FCA hired programmers straight from universities. They had little experience and the company had big turnover. Young workers rarely stay at one company for very long, especially in today's world where programmers are in high demand across many industries.

Stellantis just hired Ned Curic from Amazon to be the company's Chief Technology Officer. Tavares noted early on that software is the key for the company's future, especially with more electrification. He made the move to immediately improve on the in-house software capabilities and quality of the company.
 

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FCA hired programmers straight from universities. They had little experience and the company had big turnover. Young workers rarely stay at one company for very long, especially in today's world where programmers are in high demand across many industries.

Stellantis just hired Ned Curic from Amazon to be the company's Chief Technology Officer. Tavares noted early on that software is the key for the company's future, especially with more electrification. He made the move to immediately improve on the in-house software capabilities and quality of the company.
As someone in that industry with a plenty of experience under my belt, I have firsthand knowledge (as well as from speaking with probably 1000s of others) there is a multi-faceted problem that many companies face with regard to software engineering talent. This rears it's ugly head quite prevalently in 2 areas. 1. "Industrial" towns not known for tech but with larger companies that have a lot of jobs. 2. Non-tech sector large companies in general.

What follows is going to be a bit of a comparison, but keep in mind it is not a cheerleading post for the big companies I will namedrop, because there is a reason myself and many other software people will likely never work for some of these companies (despite many attempts at recruitment). But that gets too far off on a tangent.

Comparing Company to Company

What I have noticed from the bigger tech sector firms, is that they have very aggressive compensation packages (examining pay, stock/options, and bonuses only). Apple, Google, and Amazon in particular pay extremely well for their given locales. There have been a few articles that got hold of internal compensation documents for Amazon, so that is what I am basing some of this one.

Principal Software Engineers (which is my current job) are programmers who are the "leaders by example" of the team. They oversee a group of other engineers as a "technical expert" of sorts. Not a manager per se (though that is somewhat org-dependent), but basically kind of the top end role before you stray too far into management and deal less with developing applications.

The problem here is how vastly superior the compensation package is. Amazon, for a Principal Engineer, has compensation well into the 600K figures (again includes stocks, options, and bonuses). The company I previously worked for (manufacturing, multi billion dollar company) capped the pay for R&D top tier software engineers (I was in that group, but not experienced enough to be in the "top tier" at that point) in the mid 100s all in, and I hadn't met a single person even close to that. The compensation levels at that company have stagnated since then (still have some friends there, and the ranges didn't adjust for inflation). This seems to be a standard among the "legacy" major corporations. The only way to make any money was to fast-track into upper management or junior exec roles, and by and large those people did tantamount to nothing. Otherwise you were tricked into some believe that you had "job security" as part of your compensation package. Now, hiring only young talent is another way to ensure salaries are kept at a reduced rate compared to other options.

While Big Tech offers quite generous compensation packages, many smaller tech firms have improved compensation as well, particularly those in the same geographical areas as major tech firms. Going from a major manufacturing firm to a small tech-focused firm (< 100 employees worldwide) netted me a massive increase in salary for the same type of role. And this appears to be pretty common, from what my peers have suggested. However, we do get led into another issue I eluded to above, geographic location.

Comparing Geographic Locations

This is where it gets messy, because my hometown is notorious for being a bit of a "tech black hole". It's a relatively large city with a decent suburban sprawl. But it is built on what I referred to as legacy corporations. Manufacturing, automotive, etc. There are many tech firms here, but because the major corporations compensate so low, the salaries for tech are kept artificially deflated when compared to other nearby metropolitan areas. Driving less than 1 hour from my town, puts me into a small town that is a bit of a tech hub. On average the job offers seem to have salaries 20% or more higher. Plus many have adopted a very relaxed work from home policy, the commute is almost a non-issue.

Conclusion

Being based in Detroit-area (Auburn Hills) the US arm of Stellantis is in a bit of a weird place. You have both the legacy firms and major tech firms all in one place. Amazon was name dropped specifically because they have a big software engineering presence in Detroit. There are a LOT of opportunities in the metro-Detroit area (including tech biz-friendly towns like Ann Arbor), does Stellantis have what it takes to actually compare to these offers? If they cannot offer a competitive package, they will lose out on a lot of amazing talent. Experienced engineers like myself tend to be a bit more on the jaded side when it comes to the typical "intangibles" associated with large companies, as we have seen to often that "job security" based on performance is worthless if execs need to appease the investors (layoffs), or you end up becoming a glorified help desk technician because the super-important project at the company got sidelined even though it makes the company millions per year profit. Heck, the one amazing thing that used to set those companies apart from the newer ones was that they offered pension, but that is now almost entirely gone everywhere now too.

Since I am not actively checking opportunities out at this time, I don't know how well Stellantis may compare. But, as with most things in life, you get what you pay for. If you are only offering bottom 25% compensation, don't expect more than 25% abilities. I hope Stellantis learned from history and has tried to recruit top talent the right way, but time will tell I guess.
 

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As someone in that industry with a plenty of experience under my belt, I have firsthand knowledge (as well as from speaking with probably 1000s of others) there is a multi-faceted problem that many companies face with regard to software engineering talent. This rears it's ugly head quite prevalently in 2 areas. 1. "Industrial" towns not known for tech but with larger companies that have a lot of jobs. 2. Non-tech sector large companies in general.

What follows is going to be a bit of a comparison, but keep in mind it is not a cheerleading post for the big companies I will namedrop, because there is a reason myself and many other software people will likely never work for some of these companies (despite many attempts at recruitment). But that gets too far off on a tangent.

Comparing Company to Company

What I have noticed from the bigger tech sector firms, is that they have very aggressive compensation packages (examining pay, stock/options, and bonuses only). Apple, Google, and Amazon in particular pay extremely well for their given locales. There have been a few articles that got hold of internal compensation documents for Amazon, so that is what I am basing some of this one.

Principal Software Engineers (which is my current job) are programmers who are the "leaders by example" of the team. They oversee a group of other engineers as a "technical expert" of sorts. Not a manager per se (though that is somewhat org-dependent), but basically kind of the top end role before you stray too far into management and deal less with developing applications.

The problem here is how vastly superior the compensation package is. Amazon, for a Principal Engineer, has compensation well into the 600K figures (again includes stocks, options, and bonuses). The company I previously worked for (manufacturing, multi billion dollar company) capped the pay for R&D top tier software engineers (I was in that group, but not experienced enough to be in the "top tier" at that point) in the mid 100s all in, and I hadn't met a single person even close to that. The compensation levels at that company have stagnated since then (still have some friends there, and the ranges didn't adjust for inflation). This seems to be a standard among the "legacy" major corporations. The only way to make any money was to fast-track into upper management or junior exec roles, and by and large those people did tantamount to nothing. Otherwise you were tricked into some believe that you had "job security" as part of your compensation package. Now, hiring only young talent is another way to ensure salaries are kept at a reduced rate compared to other options.

While Big Tech offers quite generous compensation packages, many smaller tech firms have improved compensation as well, particularly those in the same geographical areas as major tech firms. Going from a major manufacturing firm to a small tech-focused firm (< 100 employees worldwide) netted me a massive increase in salary for the same type of role. And this appears to be pretty common, from what my peers have suggested. However, we do get led into another issue I eluded to above, geographic location.

Comparing Geographic Locations

This is where it gets messy, because my hometown is notorious for being a bit of a "tech black hole". It's a relatively large city with a decent suburban sprawl. But it is built on what I referred to as legacy corporations. Manufacturing, automotive, etc. There are many tech firms here, but because the major corporations compensate so low, the salaries for tech are kept artificially deflated when compared to other nearby metropolitan areas. Driving less than 1 hour from my town, puts me into a small town that is a bit of a tech hub. On average the job offers seem to have salaries 20% or more higher. Plus many have adopted a very relaxed work from home policy, the commute is almost a non-issue.

Conclusion

Being based in Detroit-area (Auburn Hills) the US arm of Stellantis is in a bit of a weird place. You have both the legacy firms and major tech firms all in one place. Amazon was name dropped specifically because they have a big software engineering presence in Detroit. There are a LOT of opportunities in the metro-Detroit area (including tech biz-friendly towns like Ann Arbor), does Stellantis have what it takes to actually compare to these offers? If they cannot offer a competitive package, they will lose out on a lot of amazing talent. Experienced engineers like myself tend to be a bit more on the jaded side when it comes to the typical "intangibles" associated with large companies, as we have seen to often that "job security" based on performance is worthless if execs need to appease the investors (layoffs), or you end up becoming a glorified help desk technician because the super-important project at the company got sidelined even though it makes the company millions per year profit. Heck, the one amazing thing that used to set those companies apart from the newer ones was that they offered pension, but that is now almost entirely gone everywhere now too.

Since I am not actively checking opportunities out at this time, I don't know how well Stellantis may compare. But, as with most things in life, you get what you pay for. If you are only offering bottom 25% compensation, don't expect more than 25% abilities. I hope Stellantis learned from history and has tried to recruit top talent the right way, but time will tell I guess.
Thank you for the inside peek. It is very logical and telling.

Stellantis hired Ned Curic from Amazon. I am sure he is getting paid big for his role.

Just before the merger, FCA contracted with Wipro to staff "FCA ICT India" which is intended to be the "Global Digital Hub" for the company.
 

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Thank you for the inside peek. It is very logical and telling.

Stellantis hired Ned Curic from Amazon. I am sure he is getting paid big for his role.
Admittedly, even now I am "underpaid" for what I do. I could stand to make a decent amount more if I decided to throw my name out there again. However, the intangibles do play a role if you have been somewhere long enough. I have a great boss, and a great team to work with, near full time remote. Whenever I get the calls from an Amazon recruiter, or the local headhunters (1 per day minimum), I just remind myself A) selling my soul to Amazon would be a massive financial benefit, but it may kill me (the requirements are pretty draconian), and B) a 20k salary boost for another company might be nice, but what if I hate where I work? This place has it's bad moments, but by and large it is a good one to work for.

Just before the merger, FCA contracted with Wipro to staff "FCA ICT India" which is intended to be the "Global Digital Hub" for the company.
That actually has me a bit worried. I haven't had direct experience with Wipro, but I have had to deal with a LOT of outsourcing projects. Of the ones we have worked with, the India and China based teams have been, by and large, the worst. This is because those companies tend to be coding farms, rather than hiring people based on competencies. We had one do a $250,000 project for us, only to come back and see A) that it looked like it was written by a college freshman with rudimentary development skills, and B) was a hack and slash of the Proof of Concept code we sent them. The requirements specifically stated "do not use this code, this is just to show what we have done". Fixing and maintaining that mess cost us another million dollars in development costs.

To make matters worse, we know there were competent developers in those companies, and they were the ones who were supposed to have worked on the project, but they seem to tend to be more or less managers to the inexperienced developers tasked with making enterprise level applications.

So I am a bit worried, but that all hinges on how Wipro staffs for these things. If Wipro is a cost over quality company like the above examples, Stellantis will have it's work cut out for it. But again, I don't have direct experience with them, just with how many companies tend to utilize IT outsourcing (internal IT resource costs 100k per year, but outsourced one costs 30k per year, let's have the outsourcing company put 2 developers on it, and save 40k!).
 
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