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I disagree that Insiders were blindsided. To me it was simply an anticlimactic presentation geared toward investors. The goal of the meeting was to show investors where the most money will be made. It was not geared toward enthusiasts
So insiders here knew that plans to use Giorgio on the large cars were scrapped and didn't share that info here? Okay that's good to know. (guess I no longer have a "go to" site for Mopar news and rumours)
And clearly the company's plans going forward are not geared towards Mopar Muscle enthusiasts, odd when SRT cars must bring in way more cash than Alfa Romeo, with the old long payed for platform and the higher volume of vehicles that sell for more money than Alfa products do.
 

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I disagree that Insiders were blindsided. To me it was simply an anticlimactic presentation geared toward investors. The goal of the meeting was to show investors where the most money will be made. It was not geared toward enthusiasts

IMO. This was a very laidback and honest presentation of future products. They will have much more products from this plan in production compared to any previous plan.

They avoided any unrealistic plans.
Just look for example at Alfa's plan. I do know that they could out two additional products in the plan. They did not do it. And I actually like that. This new plan is a very doable. With a 3 new Giorgio based product and long wheelbase versions of two existing products. IMO the most dubious project is a new 8C which is a most likely a 4C evolution with new suspension and subframes so that they can accommodate different transmission, electrification, and engine.

This new plan was all about electrification and autonomous driving. And according to this plan at the end of 2022 FCA could be on pole position compared to competitors.
AFAIK till now the most criticism for fca came about electrification and autonomous driving technologies.


For Jeep. I think that Urban Jeep project is an easily overlooked.
That should be a on road biased Jeep trim levels.
 

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Heres where you will see if the choice to keep using the LX platform is due to frame work or due to the fact that Dodge and Chrysler may be sold in the future and they dont want to share the new Giorgio platform.

If the new Long wheel base Alfa romeo Giulia which is based on giorgio platform happens to stay on the giorgio platform, then every thing that Sergio or FCA is stating about the Charger and Challanger and 300 is a HUGE LIE they are keeping the lx not because of the powertrain and the framework will have a problem with torque management, twisting and NVH, its really because they dont want to share the platform with anyone they sell dodge and chrysler too.

Case in point looking at the new LONG WHEEL BASE GIULIA it is just about the same size as all of the Current Lx vehicles almost identical. Secondly the Giorgio platform was suppose to be 27 percent more RIDGID and Stronger than the LXs along with a much better NVH rating. So you are going to tell me a platform thats more ridgid, also stronger,and able to handle noise,and vibrations much better than current LX framework can not handle the current drivetrains that the inferior platform is currently handling. Not 5 months ago the giorgio platform was all the talk of how modular the framework was and how much stronger it is, but now we are going to concentrate on LXs with nothing in the 5 year outlook plan for dodge or chrysler?. Something seems fishy really really fishy but if the Long wheel base giulia is lx based Ill be the first to say im wrong. But Im pretty sure im not.

Lastly if the new ghibli will be giorgio based this further leads be to believe FCA is lying and feeding the loyalist with propaganda.
How about price level?


BTW. There is no E segment Alfa or a new Maserati Ghibli in the new 5 year plan.
 

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2022 - 5 = 2017.... I
IMO. This was a very laidback and honest presentation of future products. They will have much more products from this plan in production compared to any previous plan.

They avoided any unrealistic plans.
Just look for example at Alfa's plan. I do know that they could out two additional products in the plan. They did not do it. And I actually like that. This new plan is a very doable. With a 3 new Giorgio based product and long wheelbase versions of two existing products. IMO the most dubious project is a new 8C which is a most likely a 4C evolution with new suspension and subframes so that they can accommodate different transmission, electrification, and engine.

This new plan was all about electrification and autonomous driving. And according to this plan at the end of 2022 FCA could be on pole position compared to competitors.
AFAIK till now the most criticism for fca came about electrification and autonomous driving technologies.


For Jeep. I think that Urban Jeep project is an easily overlooked.
That should be a on road biased Jeep trim levels.
its almost like some said last year the in 5 years everything would be at least a mild Hybrid.... hmmmmmmmm and no they won't be ahead EVERYONE has the same target, if they can figure out how to ship them damn batteries.... I wonder who is working on that... I WONDER.
 

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Some one mentioned putting Chrysler nameplates on Fiats, to me it was a great suggestion. Fill out the lineup and see what sells. Mercedes has everything on the road around here from Asian looking hatches to the top of the line vehicles. If Merc can do it some one else can. Anyway thats how I see it. Fiat has to suceed for MOPAR to stick around.
 

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So insiders here knew that plans to use Giorgio on the large cars were scrapped and didn't share that info here? Okay that's good to know. (guess I no longer have a "go to" site for Mopar news and rumours)
I do not agree that those plans have been scrapped.

And clearly the company's plans going forward are not geared towards Mopar Muscle enthusiasts, odd when SRT cars must bring in way more cash than Alfa Romeo, with the old long payed for platform and the higher volume of vehicles that sell for more money than Alfa products do.
Like the previous investors meetings... it is a dog and pony show towards investors, not enthusiasts. In my opinion people are over reacting.

Mike
 

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2022 - 5 = 2017.... I


its almost like some said last year the in 5 years everything would be at least a mild Hybrid.... hmmmmmmmm and no they won't be ahead EVERYONE has the same target, if they can figure out how to ship them damn batteries.... I wonder who is working on that... I WONDER.

We'll see. Plan is a different for every region.

There will be a BEV Renegade for China but not for Europe. Europe and US will most likely receive a PHEV Renegade. In addition to that one Europe will receive a P2 48V mild hybrid. That's a more efficient type of hybrid compared to a Wrangler or a Ram mild hybrid.

For example in Europe FCA said they will discontinue diesel. If that true, which BTW I don't believe, they must be more aggressive in electrification than most of competitors because competitors will have diesels.
 

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Marchionne words of wisdom for surviving a rapidly changing industry:

thanks to the advent of electric cars, ride-sharing, and self-driving vehicles.

“If a portion of the industry is going to be commoditized,” Marchionne told Bloomberg, “then the attrition rate is going to be tremendous for those that cannot distinguish by brand.”

Fiat Chrysler’s Marchionne: The Future of Cars Will Be Electric and Commoditized (at https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-01-15/fiat-chrysler-s-marchionne-the-future-of-cars-will-be-electric-and-commoditized )

The CEO also predicted that by 2025, “More than half of the power units you see on the road will have some relevance of electrification”--if not fully electric some hybrid form of combustion and electric.

In 10 years, Marchionne said, so-called Level 4 automation will be widespread--meaning many cars would be fully automated in certain but not all conditions. In 2017, FCA entered a partnership with BMW and Intel to develop self-driving technology.

But it’s not just a matter of technology, Machionne insisted. Automakers need to clarify what their brands stand for in the minds of drivers.

If you look at Jeep, Ram, and the premium brands, those are brands that will survive,” he said of his company’s own portfolio. “But if you provide basic transportation”--and nothing more--”it is like buying a generic phone.”


He told you all in January this year and nobody listened.

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If all you have is a Hammer ( worship of FCA's CEO ), then every problem looks like a nail ( FCA's CEO comments on the future of the automobile industry ).

Many of the rest of us have encountered still other Industry people who have been commenting on electrification as it could impact the future of the Automotive world; and they have a history dating before January 2018.

A number of people have learned that the mouth that roared can't control itself. I recall his outward questioning of electrification nearly as soon as the ink was dry after the acquisition of the CDJ companies and their greater holdings ( which already had electrification both demonstrated with rolling stock and contracts; and with vision and concepts ). AMC, which Chrysler purchased, had electrification in its portfolio - beginning in 1967 they started ongoing research for the Amitron , which was improved and renamed the Electron . So, Chrysler had two early sources of electrification IP - both distinct - as well as having a sort of "Boots on the Ground" working product.

There are other products which FCA's CEO dismissed which could have been productive for the overall brand, but top level choices overruled potential. He comes to the USA with the funny notion that he's going to teach everyone here how to drive (basically).

How is that working for His brand?

FCA'S current CEO deserves the dignity of his humanity; but anything more is optional based on individual taste.


.
 

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Nobody will be able to complain about delayed products now that they basically just said “by 2022” on everything. Good move IMO.
CAPEX is the largest in 2020 so I presume that most products will hit the showroom in a 2020 or a first half of 2021.
 

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I do not agree that those plans have been scrapped.
I would not exclude a substantial upgrades on 'L' platform for future Dodge cars. That includes a future upgrades for Ghibli including architecture alternations which are necessary for an electrification. Even Alfa or Maserati will not receive a Giorgio platform during this new 5 year plan.
 

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I would not exclude a substantial upgrades on 'L' platform for future Dodge cars. That includes a future upgrades for Ghibli including architecture alternations which are necessary for an electrification. Even Alfa or Maserati will not receive a Giorgio platform during this new 5 year plan.
Oh I know substantial upgrades are coming.

I’m saying there is a lot more happening that many people here do not know about. Just because it was not reported to the investors does not mean it is not happening.

Mike
 

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Since this quote got ignored, here it is again for you guys to read:

If you haven't read the thread on negativity, I suggest you do so. If you have and have nothing but negative things to post, I suggest you reacquaint yourself with it.

Proper Forum Etiquette - Civility & Negativity (at https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/proper-forum-etiquette-civility-negativity.169902/ )

This thread is not for complaining about what *YOU* think FCA should be doing or what they're doing wrong. It is to discuss the plan, as laid out, and what it means for the future. If you think that the future is that "The Sky if Falling" I suggest you refrain from beating that drum.

If you insist on doing so, you can expect to take a vacation.
I'm reopening this thread after cleaning out some of the argumentative and unreasonably negative posts. If you guys can't refrain from arguing or being overly negative without any justifiable excuse, there will be other problems.
 

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I do not agree that those plans have been scrapped.



Like the previous investors meetings... it is a dog and pony show towards investors, not enthusiasts. In my opinion people are over reacting.

Mike
You know, saying the presentation didn't include anything about Dodge, Chrysler, or Fiat* because it was geared towards investors is implying that FCA doesn't regard those brands as being worthy of investment.

Chrysler ought to sue Bob Eaton for the amount of whatever golden parachute he got from the Daimler deal, adjusted for inflation, because ultimately this whole mess is his fault. Chrysler had a direction - luxury - until Daimler said, "no, that is Mercedes-Benz's purpose," (admittedly without trying to make Chrysler into a "people-mover" brand). And now FCA are saying, "no, that's Alfa Romeo/Maserati's purpose."

It's becoming clear that the only reason FCA hold on Chrysler and Dodge is the same reason GM let Oldsmobile and Pontiac linger on through to their respective demises - brand diversity and as cash cows without significant investment. Making Chrysler into a mainstream brand is an insult to people who remember when they made premium-feeling cars for people who aren't ultra-rich. And making Dodge into a performance brand ignores the many customers who bought Darts/Monacos/Arieses/Omnis/Lancers/Shadows/Spirits/Intrepids/Grand Caravans/Avengers and yes, Calibers and Journeys, as basic transportation for themselves and their friends/families.

In reality, beyond that Chrysler is what the "C" in FCA stands for, what is there really to stop them from shuttering the Chrysler brand and making Dodge, Jeep, and Ram divisions of Fiat the same way Alfa Romeo and Maserati (and Ferrari, to a point) are?

*Fiat's return to North America has been botched since day one and is likely unsalvageable at this point. Though I do like the 500 as I feel it's availability here gives the world a sense of connectedness to have a car here that was clearly designed with Europe in mind, the Alfa lineup of 2010 with the Mito/Giulietta/159/GT/Spyder would've suited our market better.
 
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