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Georgio was supposed to be scalable wasn’t it? In length and width? I could see that adding dimension may cause too much flex, but kind of a head scratcher. As far as charger- Updating the current platform is no problem for me personally, but am hoping for awd available for high hp cars. Electric parking brake. Maybe a couple more inches of rear legroom?
Does anyone know what needs to be done at Brampton to accommodate wider wheels down the assembly line?
The fenders and rear quarters are currently hemmed to allow for wider tires now used on Hellcats, if that's what you mean.
 

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So insiders here knew that plans to use Giorgio on the large cars were scrapped and didn't share that info here? Okay that's good to know. (guess I no longer have a "go to" site for Mopar news and rumours)
And clearly the company's plans going forward are not geared towards Mopar Muscle enthusiasts, odd when SRT cars must bring in way more cash than Alfa Romeo, with the old long payed for platform and the higher volume of vehicles that sell for more money than Alfa products do.
Insiders are under no obligation to share what they know. They are not paid by Allpar for the information. They share it at their discretion. They may know something that they don't feel like sharing for a variety of reasons. We should be grateful when they share what they know and not criticize them when they don't. We don't know the reasons why they do not. Maybe the information is known only to a few people and revealing it could put someone's job in jeopardy. There may be other reasons, but ultimately it is their decision.
 

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You know, saying the presentation didn't include anything about Dodge, Chrysler, or Fiat* because it was geared towards investors is implying that FCA doesn't regard those brands as being worthy of investment.

Chrysler ought to sue Bob Eaton for the amount of whatever golden parachute he got from the Daimler deal, adjusted for inflation, because ultimately this whole mess is his fault. Chrysler had a direction - luxury - until Daimler said, "no, that is Mercedes-Benz's purpose," (admittedly without trying to make Chrysler into a "people-mover" brand). And now FCA are saying, "no, that's Alfa Romeo/Maserati's purpose."

It's becoming clear that the only reason FCA hold on Chrysler and Dodge is the same reason GM let Oldsmobile and Pontiac linger on through to their respective demises - brand diversity and as cash cows without significant investment. Making Chrysler into a mainstream brand is an insult to people who remember when they made premium-feeling cars for people who aren't ultra-rich. And making Dodge into a performance brand ignores the many customers who bought Darts/Monacos/Arieses/Omnis/Lancers/Shadows/Spirits/Intrepids/Grand Caravans/Avengers and yes, Calibers and Journeys, as basic transportation for themselves and their friends/families.

In reality, beyond that Chrysler is what the "C" in FCA stands for, what is there really to stop them from shuttering the Chrysler brand and making Dodge, Jeep, and Ram divisions of Fiat the same way Alfa Romeo and Maserati (and Ferrari, to a point) are?

*Fiat's return to North America has been botched since day one and is likely unsalvageable at this point. Though I do like the 500 as I feel it's availability here gives the world a sense of connectedness to have a car here that was clearly designed with Europe in mind, the Alfa lineup of 2010 with the Mito/Giulietta/159/GT/Spyder would've suited our market better.
You can read into it however negatively you wish to do so.

The name of the company is Fiat Chrysler... those names are not going anywhere.

Mike
 

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Here's something people need to consider.


This is not a 5 year syllabus where you have to follow all the steps in order to achieve your goal.

It is a 5 year plan.

We don't get to the end of 5 years and "BOOM" we're suddenly done. At the end of 5 years FCA needs to make sure that it is ready to tackle then NEXT 5 years. And that 5 year outlook is a rolling target. They don't sit there twiddling their thumbs for 5 years and "BAM" another 5 year plan. Though it may appear that way, I am sure they're not waiting until year 4 to start working on the next 5 year plan. Markets shift. Plans change. FCA needs to adapt to try to prepare for the future. It is easy to look back and criticize decisions with the blessing of hindsight. I am confident that FCA has access to more information than anyone on this board and they are doing what they think is best for the company.

Does that mean that they don't make mistakes? No. Does it mean that we have to agree with the direction the plans are headed? No. But try to remember that there are thousands of FCA employees doing the best job they can to ensure the future of the company.
 

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Oaky lets play small game. Jeep has 9 vehicles are coming in the next 5 year where 2 vehicles will be launched per year.
And these are the following:

1 A/B - new car
1 B - new Renegade
1 C - Refreshed Compass
3 D - new Cherokee, new 3-row, & jeep truck
2 E - Grand Cherokee 2-row, & new 3-row
1 F - Grand Wagoneer

And here my assumptions:

2018: A/B new car
2019: new D 3-row, jeep truck
2020: Grand Cherokee 2-row, & new E 3-row
2021: Refreshed Compass, Grand Wagoneer
2022: new Renegade, new Cherokee
 

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I can understand why people are disappointed with not much in the way of official news regarding certain brands. If I were looking forward to info on Jeep, and they weren’t included I’d probably need a quiet moment to myself...not saying I’d cry...well...yeah...I’d probably cry...I’m a big man...I’m not afraid to admit that...:p

But all they had to dangle before me was the prospect of a 3-row Grand Cherokee. Look kids, shiny things!! Ooooohhh aaaaaahhh!! :D

I’m sorry....what was I talking about again?? :p
 

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From my angle it seems the presentation is more of a where FCA is going directionally than a fixed designation. Investors hear 9 Billion Euro being spent on electrification and right away they're going to ask a question. How is FCA going to pay for this? The rest of the presentation was presenting the products which will be bankrolling that future.

It was Daimler that killed Chrysler's then current EV program, the EPIC minivans. What Daimler did also left a paper trail because many vans were funneled through government programs. Cerberus presented their EV dog & pony show with vehicles powered by vendor engineered and built drivetrains. The three headed hound also bound Chrysler to a contract with A123, which would've dragged Chrysler into the same swirling vortex that swallowed A123. Sergio killed the EV program group that was using precious capital and engineering personnel, used the bankruptcy to divorce A123, and killed the NiMh hybrids. All this is nearly a decade ago. FCA wasn't doing nothing for alternative drivetrains the past 9+ years, despite what media pundits and what they think Sergio said. First Sergio tried to restart a way to provide the Post Office with battery electric minivans. Although hybrids with NiMh batteries were dropped from the market, development continued with plugin hybrid pickups and minivans, all while pursuing state of the art battery technology. FCA is also involved on the infrastructure side of the EV equation as well. The only thing FCA didn't do is sell EVs to retail customers. (The exception of course is the 500e compliance car. I doubt if any were sold at anything close to a retail price.) Now there is a PHEV Pacifica, which shows FCA's commitment is real. Sergio's swan song presentation was the total opposite of the Cerberus dog & pony show. The fact that there were Highland Park people offering some of the presentations says a lot more about FCA than the content of the presentation.
 

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Here's something people need to consider.


This is not a 5 year syllabus where you have to follow all the steps in order to achieve your goal.

It is a 5 year plan.

We don't get to the end of 5 years and "BOOM" we're suddenly done. At the end of 5 years FCA needs to make sure that it is ready to tackle then NEXT 5 years. And that 5 year outlook is a rolling target. They don't sit there twiddling their thumbs for 5 years and "BAM" another 5 year plan. Though it may appear that way, I am sure they're not waiting until year 4 to start working on the next 5 year plan. Markets shift. Plans change. FCA needs to adapt to try to prepare for the future. It is easy to look back and criticize decisions with the blessing of hindsight. I am confident that FCA has access to more information than anyone on this board and they are doing what they think is best for the company.

Does that mean that they don't make mistakes? No. Does it mean that we have to agree with the direction the plans are headed? No. But try to remember that there are thousands of FCA employees doing the best job they can to ensure the future of the company.
Ha ha it’s so true i wish our 5 year plans lasted 6 months. If 5 year plan were actually 5 years they wouldn’t be yearly
 

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I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Plans are just that...plans. We all know what can happen with plans, something about plans are made to be broken....

What we need to see are these talked about products actually on the showroom floor. Then, and only then, can we gauge their appropriateness for their market segment, their quality & reliability, and their sales figures. That is how you evaluate a product. Plans are good for generating excitement and discussion, but they won’t keep your lights on. I’m reminded of the old saying, don’t tell me what you’re going to do...show me what you’ve done.

I’m looking forward to the next few years, to see the “promised” products come to fruition. This should be an exciting time for sure.

Here’s to hoping the new product rolls out with a minimum of bugs & glitches, with a maximum of effective marketing, and all of it in a timely manner without excessive delays &/or outright cancellations.
 

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T


The fenders and rear quarters are currently hemmed to allow for wider tires now used on Hellcats, if that's what you mean.
I thought the reason the demon had other wheels off the line was because the line couldn’t accommodate the wheel width
 

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You did not see the car go down the complete line. Maybe there's only certain sections are going to handle tires at wide
 

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Relative to Sm’s statements about where revenue is going to be spent for new models in the coming years...

NAFTA only brands were supposed to get 25% of the UPCOMING pie.

So, in the coming five years, production and revenues are expected to rise considerably? No?

Did he say that funds for NAFTA only model developme t was going to be reduced? I don’t think he did. I think the point that was missed, was that of the LARGER pie, NAFAtA only models got 25%. For all we know, that 25% could actually be an INCREASE in money for NAFTA only stuff.

It is all in what you choose to see. I choose to see the pile of horse poop under the Christmas tree, and I start looking for my new horse. Some people just start complaining about a pile of horse poop.
 

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One of the main complains about Challenger and Charger are its weight.
I don't mind the next Challenger/Charger will still be riding on a LA/LX platform, but can they address the weight issue?
 
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Insiders are under no obligation to share what they know. They are not paid by Allpar for the information. They share it at their discretion. They may know something that they don't feel like sharing for a variety of reasons. We should be grateful when they share what they know and not criticize them when they don't. We don't know the reasons why they do not. Maybe the information is known only to a few people and revealing it could put someone's job in jeopardy. There may be other reasons, but ultimately it is their decision.
The whole point of my previous post was to point out that it is not surprising that Mopar fans would be upset by Friday's presentation. After all they are probably the most passionate of all fans of American cars. And maybe cutting them a little slack to blow off steam is in order?
I personally think that FCAs plan is smart given market trends and their need to get the maximum benefit from investment dollars.
As for my comment about Allpar being blind sided, of course no one is obligated to share sensitive information, I was just surprised that these pages were caught out of the loop sort of speak, that is something I don't really ever remember happening in my time reading these pages.
A little more understanding on all sides would go a long ways IMO.
 

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I'm really not trying to be an a__hole here but, I find it really odd that so many people are surprised that some Mopar enthusiasts might feel a little screwed over by yesterday's presentation. FCA all but abandoned Chrysler, Dodge and Fiat yesterday and that is not opinion that is a fact represented by the CEO's own words when he spoke of where resources would be spent in coming years.
While given the current trends in vehicle sales this is most likely a very smart move on his behalf and for the future success of FCA.
But if you actually think that it is something that true Mopar fans will be happy to hear you must be confused or believe that Mopar fans are all Jeep/Ram drivers.
For fans of those brands it's a great day, if Chrysler/Dodge/(Plymouth) were your idea of what "Mopar" was, it was a really sad day.
Paint it any way you choose but when Dodge cars get left behind in the future on their 20 year old platform, many a Mopar fan will be looking at other brands of enthusiast rides because they want a muscle car, not a truck.
And the BS story going around sites about "Giorgio" not being able to handle Hemi torque is utter nonsense as the platform was developed in Detroit and Turin (Sergio's previous words), and will still underpin Hemi powered Jeeps.
Lastly, this site has been my go to place for insider info for more than a decade now and never steered me wrong in the past. But I'm a bit surprised that if this blindsided insiders here, why is it not a big deal? Because it sure is IMO.

Now I got that off my chest, I'm gonna go have another coffee and enjoy a nice sunny day while trying to clear my head of anything Mopar, Cheers
Major Detroit newspaper agrees with your drift;

Chrysler and Dodge’s days may be numbered despite surviving Friday (at https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2018/06/01/chrysler-dodge-fiat-fca/664601002/ )
 

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I try to stay optimistick about FCA plans and I remain so for the Jeep and Ram brands and the luxury brands. However I am a little concerned about Chrysler and Dodge and I could care less about Fiat. It appears to me that Chrysler and Dodge will survive only as long as money can be made on them without having to invest much money on them. I am beginning to wonder if we will ever see a rwd/awd Dodge performance based cuv based on the alpha platform, I can believe the bof Durango because it can be built for very little investment. The Chrysler Pacifica based CUV might make it, once again they won’t have to spend big money on it, beyond these I will believe it when they become official just before production. I believe the predicted Jeep and Ram coming products because those are FCA’s N.A. money brands.
When you read Mark Phelan's article your concerns will not only appear justified but spot on;

Chrysler and Dodge’s days may be numbered despite surviving Friday (at https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2018/06/01/chrysler-dodge-fiat-fca/664601002/ )
 

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You can read into it however negatively you wish to do so.

The name of the company is Fiat Chrysler... those names are not going anywhere.

Mike
Yesterday's WSJ, in a report about the FCA meeting, only half jokingly stated that the company should probably be re-christened "Maserati Jeep" or "Alfa Romeo Ram".
 

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Like the previous investors meetings... it is a dog and pony show towards investors, not enthusiasts. In my opinion people are over reacting.
Even if true, a presentation to investors is a matter of public record and words should be chosen carefully. Major business reporting organizations and analyzers pick up not only on what is hyped but also what is "damned with faint praise";

Chrysler and Dodge’s days may be numbered despite surviving Friday (at https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2018/06/01/chrysler-dodge-fiat-fca/664601002/ )

There was a similar sentiment expressed in the "L.A. Times" business section yesterday, though much less elaborate than the above linked article.

None of those reports are going to offer much assurance to prospective Chrysler/Dodge customers.
 
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