[Rick Anderson]

Or the dealer can request and supply..... The last several I have bought new have all had traditional owner's manuals (these purchases being 2 2013s, 2 2014s, 1 2015, and 1 2016. The new owner's survey asks if you have read the manual or watched the DVD.

Yes, you should be able to register on the brand site for any CDJR vehicle as the owner, then be able to download an electronic copy of the O.M., as well as order a paper copy for less than $20, IIRC. If the O.M. is absent, there should have been a note/voucher in its place, explaining this and if you're the original owner, you can call a number and have a paper copy O.M. sent to you free of charge.

Again my comments are NOT directed at FCA for doing this, considering the lack of any backlash, they were right in saving the money on something their customers weren't using, almost all never noticed it was missing, and if they did, they could get one without much trouble.

The fact those vehicles are on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th owners and no one has even noticed the O.M. missing from the glove box proves the point. As a 2nd owner, I could NOT get a paper copy O.M. for free, but I get by just fine with an electronic copy and the "Quick Start Guide" in the glove box, as reference when I'm on the road. But I look up stuff all the time in the electronic copy of the O.M. and being electronic it does have the convenient feature of being able to do a word search for the info I'm looking for....

 

[Doug D]

Habit patterns, most drivers are only concerned with taking their keys with them. In the past that guaranteed the car would turn off. Now when they only think to take their keys as they leave, that leaves the motor running.

If you develop a habit of turning the ignition off with a key, why is it different if the vehicle now has a fob with push button start/stop? I guess that's the part I can't quite wrap my thinking around. Guess I'm too logical. With a key you have to physically turn the key. With a start/stop button, you simply have to push button for two seconds.

Granted, I agree with you, how clueless do you have to be NOT to notice you got out of the car with the engine still running? Most people would be able to break that habit pattern rather quickly. But apparently a lot of vehicle owners are that clueless.

It's really not that many. A very small percentage. At leased on what NHTSA is reporting in terms of "incidents".

I find the shifter NOT in park because of its design, more forgivable than habitually walking away from a running car that you just parked for hours or more. But again, I avoid getting out of a running car, how hard is it to shut the motor off and restart it, even if you're only getting out for only 30 seconds. And if I do get out, I set the parking brake as well as have it in park.

I could understand if a driver thought a hybrid was "off" since the engine may not be running when it is parked. But again, that gets back to the habit of turning a vehicle "off".

Oh the manufacturers do NOT want an User's Agreement, likely for legal reasons it would have to list everything, software user agreement would have to be part of it, and if purchasers actually read it and understood it, they would walk out the door.

I would think such an agreement would be in the manufacturer's interest. At least as far as "operating" the vehicle in the manner intended. That would include turning the vehicle on and OFF. But maybe I'm too logical.

 

[Doug D]

Yes, you should be able to register on the brand site for any CDJR vehicle as the owner, then be able to download an electronic copy of the O.M., as well as order a paper copy for less than $20, IIRC.

No need to register as the owner to download the owner's manual in pdf format.

 

[Rick Anderson]

Yep, I think you're right, the registering as the owner is probably just to confirm if you are the original owner and thus eligible to have a paper copy sent to you for free.

I remember trying, it couldn't hurt, but when I registered they could tell I was the 2nd owner, and thus no free paper copy of the O.M. for me. The original owner should have ordered it.

And I only got one FOBIK key, even though I bought through a dealer, the dealer was willing to walk away from the deal instead of provide a 2nd FOBIK key. That's all because of the outrageous prices for the FOBIK's, original owners don't replace the lost key at that price, and even the dealers aren't replacing them because even at cost for a dealership they are so outrageously priced from corporate, they cut in huge in the dealers profit margin.

 

[LouJC]

I read what the actual recall is going to change. It will shift the trans into Park when the driver opens the door. Let's hope that the software will also recognize if the car is moving. Because can you imagine, someone shuts the door, realizes the seat belt is stuck in the door, or it doesn't close all the way, they open the door while driving and ..... well you can just imagine...people do silly things, let's hope they anticipate this. I still say, this works like a sequential shifter on a motorcycle and anyone who learned how to shift a Harley after driving a normal automatic car, can recall how confusing it is at first. Not intuitive and not good design, regardless if it came from the techno wizards at ZF instead of Auburn Hills or where ever the Chrysler engineers in the US are based.....

 

[Mike V.]

If you develop a habit of turning the ignition off with a key, why is it different if the vehicle now has a fob with push button start/stop? I guess that's the part I can't quite wrap my thinking around. Guess I'm too logical. With a key you have to physically turn the key. With a start/stop button, you simply have to push button for two seconds.



It's really not that many. A very small percentage. At leased on what NHTSA is reporting in terms of "incidents".



I could understand if a driver thought a hybrid was "off" since the engine may not be running when it is parked. But again, that gets back to the habit of turning a vehicle "off".



I would think such an agreement would be in the manufacturer's interest. At least as far as "operating" the vehicle in the manner intended. That would include turning the vehicle on and OFF. But maybe I'm too logical.

I have no issue going from my key ignition Neon and Dakota to my push button equipped Durango and Challenger.

Much ado about nothing.

Mike

 

[Rick Anderson]

If you develop a habit of turning the ignition off with a key, why is it different if the vehicle now has a fob with push button start/stop? I guess that's the part I can't quite wrap my thinking around. Guess I'm too logical. With a key you have to physically turn the key. With a start/stop button, you simply have to push button for two seconds.



It's really not that many. A very small percentage. At leased on what NHTSA is reporting in terms of "incidents".



I could understand if a driver thought a hybrid was "off" since the engine may not be running when it is parked. But again, that gets back to the habit of turning a vehicle "off".



I would think such an agreement would be in the manufacturer's interest. At least as far as "operating" the vehicle in the manner intended. That would include turning the vehicle on and OFF. But maybe I'm too logical.

I have no issue going from my key ignition Neon and Dakota to my push button equipped Durango and Challenger.

Much ado about nothing.

Mike

Actually, if you've put the transmission in park, I think you just have to press the button a moment to shut off the engine. Its when you're in-gear and moving, you have to push and hold the button for 2 sec to shut it down.

While I agree, how hard is it to break a habit pattern, and press the button before leaving the vehicle? But I've seen it, and its only getting worse, people more and more oblivious and lazy. Without thinking, they make a mistake and walk away with the motor running, and then see that it shuts itself off when they get 25ft away with the key in hand. They then assume that is the way its suppose to be shut off.

 

[JavelinAMX]

First -

The shifter, and the explanations regarding its use, seem to be mere change for the sake of change.

In this whole thread, I can't recall anyone addressing the "Confirm" step in the procedure. It means you take your eyes off the road or driveway or garage or parking space. You zone to the dash display to see Park (or whatever you need that moment ).

If you absolutely HAD to have this Shifter, perhaps limit it to those vehicles with HeadUp displays where driver's eyes are line-of-sight with the road simultaneous with important Dash read-out. You can tell your vehicle is moving when your vision is on the near field space just outside of the car better than when concentrating on the Dash level read-out or the Shifter lights.

The Shifter is basically a toggle. Not my thing. The typical Shifter with audible and tactile feel detents seems superior to this .

Second -

I rented a car for one day Thursday. A '15 Nissan Altima V6 CVT Auto with Push-button start. Gear ratio was nicely matched to the engine. Peppy engine, but a bit twitchy on road - that being related to the not so smooth accelerator pedal. Steering was more easily "influenced" by roadway glitches than I'd like. Still don't like the CVT, though better than the one in the Sentra I owned back in '08. The suspension was fairly taut, but road rumble and tire slap came through the sound deadening ... I'm certain I rolled over a gum wrapper (know what I mean?). It's a somewhat acceptable car, with fairly okay interior. Seats could've been worse, so that part was nice.

My big Bugaboo with the car?

The Push-button starter. It worked well for what it was, but definitely not my thing. You can get used to it, but why?

I still have good memories of the 2012 Chrysler 200 2.4L we rented in that same year. That car was done up very nicely. Held its own quite well.

 

[redhed]

You can get used to it, but why?

i'm a big fan of of keyless entry/engine start. yes, i know it's not a big deal, but never having to take my keys/key fob out of my pocket is NICE!

 

[JavelinAMX]

i'm a big fan of of keyless entry/engine start. yes, i know it's not a big deal, but never having to take my keys/key fob out of my pocket is NICE!

That's good for you

I remember way back in the day, my family had a 1956 Dodge D100 pick-up truck. As I recall, it had a Floor Starter Button near the Accelerator Pedal.

That worked, too Maybe the dash push-button was spawned by the old-school Floor Button starter?

 

[valiant67]

I've had everything from push button auto to three on the tree to the new dial to consoles with no interlock to column shifts. I never had a problem with it but the shifter in my 2013 300s was without a doubt the worst one to use. It required way too much attention to ensure the gear selected was the one you intended.

 

[JavelinAMX]

I've had everything from push button auto to three on the tree to the new dial to consoles with no interlock to column shifts. I never had a problem with it but the shifter in my 2013 300s was without a doubt the worst one to use. It required way too much attention to ensure the gear selected was the one you intended.

My preference is for Intuitive vs Attention-required.

Just seems better for the task of driving.

 

[KCP Worker]

That's good for you

I remember way back in the day, my family had a 1956 Dodge D100 pick-up truck. As I recall, it had a Floor Starter Button near the Accelerator Pedal.

That worked, too Maybe the dash push-button was spawned by the old-school Floor Button starter?

Dodge trucks of that era also had a throttle knob that allowed slow speed driving without touching the gas pedal. I personally used that feature on the farm during hay baling.

 

[rapidtrans]

Have no issues with the push button start. Although i have occasionally hit the radio-off button but i'll live.

Don't know what all was involved in the redesign but my '16 E-shifter works much better. The detents in the shifter make a Huge difference.
Can this be retro fitted in earlier models?

 

[JavelinAMX]

Dodge trucks of that era also had a throttle knob that allowed slow speed driving without touching the gas pedal. I personally used that feature on the farm during hay baling.

Very interesting. Ours was a typical two-wheel drive model with Three-on-the-Floor which also had a Compound Low added ( unsure if it was a factory add-on, or otherwise ).

 

[Zagnut27]

That's good for you

I remember way back in the day, my family had a 1956 Dodge D100 pick-up truck. As I recall, it had a Floor Starter Button near the Accelerator Pedal.

That worked, too Maybe the dash push-button was spawned by the old-school Floor Button starter?

"When trumpets were mellow
And every gal only had one fellow
No need to remember when
'Cause everything old is new again."

 

[Zagnut27]

Dodge trucks of that era also had a throttle knob that allowed slow speed driving without touching the gas pedal. I personally used that feature on the farm during hay baling.

I believe the early Jeeps has that as well. My brother restores old Jeeps, and I think he's talked about that feature, of course on his farm. I believe he referred to it as a granny gear...?? (I could be wrong)

 

[JavelinAMX]

"When trumpets were mellow
And every gal only had one fellow
No need to remember when
'Cause everything old is new again."

Touché