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But nothing will prevent you from shutting off the car (with a floor shift), taking the key, walking away,and the car rolling over you or down a hill.
My dad's 89 Acclaim had an automatic floor shift. You could shut it off in gear, but not remove the key until it was in park. There was an interlock lever on the column, and you could not turn the key to LOCK without shifting to park and pressing the lever while turning the key.
 

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I thought it was the law, a vehicle can NOT be able to have the ignition key removed unless the shifter is in park?

So is this recall for manual trans vehicles or are the accidents from folks getting out of running vehicles and NOT putting them all the way into park?

You don't get out of the car while the engine is running, NOT always possible, but for the few cases its necessary, at least set the parking brake before leaving.

You don't park on a hill without setting the parking brake before leaving the vehicle.

You check your parking brake from time to time, see if you can set it with the vehicle in neutral while still in the car and taking your foot off the service brake and see if the parking brake can hold the vehicle on a hill. You adjust or fix the parking brake if it can NOT do this.

Am I the only one that has vehicles 20+ years old, that the parking brake can hold it on a hill in neutral, but I drive a friends year old or more car and their parking brake can NOT, it is clearly out of adjustment.

This sounds like its purely the owners responsibility, but we are blaming the car companies? Hmmmm, seems the more we demand the car companies produce cars that are smarter than the owner and blame the car's design for negligence on the driver, the more and more recalls there seems to be needing to be issued......
 
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If you think this is a problem, just wait until it goes one step further with start-stop systems. When I was working at the Toyota dealer I came out late one night only to have one of our Prius service loaners suddenly start as I walked by. Why? Because whoever was using it didn't realize it was still on. The start-stop system had probably shut the engine down while they were collecting their personal stuff out of the car and heading off service to pick up their personal vehicle. They handed in the keys to the loaner and left. However, since it was still on, the engine would cycle itself back on if it sensed a need....like to recharge the battery, run the HVAC, etc. Strange thing with the Prius and other push button start Toyotas is you can walk off with the key without realizing the car is still on. There is an audible beep INSIDE the car to let you know the keys aren't in the car, but the car still runs and you can still drive it. There is no audible in the key fob to let you know you just walked away from a running car.

Now imagine if this car was parked in someone's garage. A real possibility it would kill the family in the house with CO poisoning. You wouldn't even think you left it running because you just threw your keys down on the kitchen counter. Want to talk about lawsuits?
 

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If you think this is a problem, just wait until it goes one step further with start-stop systems. When I was working at the Toyota dealer I came out late one night only to have one of our Prius service loaners suddenly start as I walked by. Why? Because whoever was using it didn't realize it was still on. The start-stop system had probably shut the engine down while they were collecting their personal stuff out of the car and heading off service to pick up their personal vehicle. They handed in the keys to the loaner and left. However, since it was still on, the engine would cycle itself back on if it sensed a need....like to recharge the battery, run the HVAC, etc. Strange thing with the Prius and other push button start Toyotas is you can walk off with the key without realizing the car is still on. There is an audible beep INSIDE the car to let you know the keys aren't in the car, but the car still runs and you can still drive it. There is no audible in the key fob to let you know you just walked away from a running car.

Now imagine if this car was parked in someone's garage. A real possibility it would kill the family in the house with CO poisoning. You wouldn't even think you left it running because you just threw your keys down on the kitchen counter. Want to talk about lawsuits?
I heard of an instance where it was on a lift and still turned on in gear, and the car started and lunged off the lift. Don't know if it's possible.
 

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My dad's 89 Acclaim had an automatic floor shift. You could shut it off in gear, but not remove the key until it was in park. There was an interlock lever on the column, and you could not turn the key to LOCK without shifting to park and pressing the lever while turning the key.
The brake/shift interlock was fairly new at the time that 89 was made.
 

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I agree with all this. I can't figure out exactly what the magic formula is that determines whether going from Drive to Neutral or Reverse - is it length of time, number of barely perceptible detent passes, or phase of the moon? Not what you want when doing a K-turn or getting into your driveway on a moderately busy street. There is no real tactile feedback. I drove for years and year with column shifts never having to see the indicator — you just knew how far you’d moved the lever. Can you imagine a stick shift where you can’t judge by feel what gear you’re in? where you could fly by 1st into 4th if you didn't time it just right?
Bingo,
With conventional shifters it's almost like a muscle memory thing. Whether a manual, auto, floor or column shift you knew by feel what gear you were in without looking.
 

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If you think this is a problem, just wait until it goes one step further with start-stop systems. When I was working at the Toyota dealer I came out late one night only to have one of our Prius service loaners suddenly start as I walked by. Why? Because whoever was using it didn't realize it was still on. The start-stop system had probably shut the engine down while they were collecting their personal stuff out of the car and heading off service to pick up their personal vehicle. They handed in the keys to the loaner and left. However, since it was still on, the engine would cycle itself back on if it sensed a need....like to recharge the battery, run the HVAC, etc. Strange thing with the Prius and other push button start Toyotas is you can walk off with the key without realizing the car is still on. There is an audible beep INSIDE the car to let you know the keys aren't in the car, but the car still runs and you can still drive it. There is no audible in the key fob to let you know you just walked away from a running car.

Now imagine if this car was parked in someone's garage. A real possibility it would kill the family in the house with CO poisoning. You wouldn't even think you left it running because you just threw your keys down on the kitchen counter. Want to talk about lawsuits?
Co-worker has a Prius (acquired via inheritance). There is a procedure to turn the car "off". Otherwise if left "on", it will periodically start the engine to recharge the battery as the battery runs down. It'll keep doing so until it is turned off or runs out of fuel.
 
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This sounds like its purely the owners responsibility, but we are blaming the car companies? Hmmmm, seems the more we demand the car companies produce cars that are smarter than the owner and blame the car's design for negligence on the driver, the more and more recalls there seems to be needing to be issued......
Just more evidence that more and more people treat cars as "appliances". They just want to turn the key and go. Too many have their heads bent down playing with their "communicator".
 

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Discussion Starter #90
There was no reverse interlock, at least for any Chrysler product I know of with a manual transmission. You could take the key out with the shift lever in any position. But mid-80s cars had a lever on the steering column that had to be depressed to turn the key from OFF to LOCK to remove the key. It could still be in any gear position, including neutral. And there was no clutch safety switch until 1988.
Interesting. I remember driving several 1970+ manual shift cars that had to be in Reverse before I could turn the key to Lock. My late 1973 AMC Hornet 3 spd manual shift on the column had that feature.

http://repairguide.autozone.com/zne...00c152/80/07/dd/a8/large/0900c1528007dda8.gif
 

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There was no reverse interlock, at least for any Chrysler product I know of with a manual transmission. You could take the key out with the shift lever in any position. But mid-80s cars had a lever on the steering column that had to be depressed to turn the key from OFF to LOCK to remove the key. It could still be in any gear position, including neutral. And there was no clutch safety switch until 1988.
No clutch safety switch then how did my 74 duster have it ???????
 

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Mopar-nac The Moderator
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It's very easy to be careless with this shifter.

Mike
 

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Interesting. I remember driving several 1970+ manual shift cars that had to be in Reverse before I could turn the key to Lock. My late 1973 AMC Hornet 3 spd manual shift on the column had that feature.
Reverse isn't always the right choice. You need to park in the opposite gear to the direction the car would roll. If you're in danger of rolling backwards, you put it in a forward gear; if you're in danger of rolling forwards, you put it in reverse.

SAABs used to make you park in gear for safety. In very cold weather (as you'd get in Northern Sweden), the wheels can shrink as they cool so much that the handbrake would no longer grip them, leaving the car free to roll. In this situation, the gearbox is the last line of defense.

(I seem to remember signs in parts of San Francisco telling drivers to park diagonally, nose downhill against the kerb, car in reverse for manuals)
 

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Mopar-nac The Moderator
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I have to admit that is the dumbest shifter I have ever seen.
And? You are adding nothing to the conversation and this video has been posted before.

Mike
 

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No clutch safety switch then how did my 74 duster have it ???????
Some cars did, some didn't. Daytonas, for instance, did not, from 1984-88. Not consistent.
 

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Mopar-nac The Moderator
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All subprime discussion has been moved. Please stay on topic at hand!

Mike
 

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If you think this is a problem, just wait until it goes one step further with start-stop systems. When I was working at the Toyota dealer I came out late one night only to have one of our Prius service loaners suddenly start as I walked by. Why? Because whoever was using it didn't realize it was still on. The start-stop system had probably shut the engine down while they were collecting their personal stuff out of the car and heading off service to pick up their personal vehicle. They handed in the keys to the loaner and left. However, since it was still on, the engine would cycle itself back on if it sensed a need....like to recharge the battery, run the HVAC, etc. Strange thing with the Prius and other push button start Toyotas is you can walk off with the key without realizing the car is still on. There is an audible beep INSIDE the car to let you know the keys aren't in the car, but the car still runs and you can still drive it. There is no audible in the key fob to let you know you just walked away from a running car.

Now imagine if this car was parked in someone's garage. A real possibility it would kill the family in the house with CO poisoning. You wouldn't even think you left it running because you just threw your keys down on the kitchen counter. Want to talk about lawsuits?
We owned a Prius and the only way that could happen is if that Prius had the optional keyless Go where you just need the key in your pocket for the car to start. She probably did not push the "OFF" switch before she got out and the key was close enough for the car to think the key fob was inside. Our Prius was a cheaper one and you had to stick the fob in the dash for it to run.
 

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Co-worker has a Prius (acquired via inheritance). There is a procedure to turn the car "off". Otherwise if left "on", it will periodically start the engine to recharge the battery as the battery runs down. It'll keep doing so until it is turned off or runs out of fuel.
Only if the Prius has the Keyless Go. It depends on the feature level of the car. The lower levels have a fob that you insert into the dash like a "key".
 
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