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And I won't argue thatMike, we are both agreeing that it's overreaction.
I think where we disagree is in how crappy the shifter is. I am a daily user so I am going to play that as my trump card.
Choo Choo!
Mike
And I won't argue thatMike, we are both agreeing that it's overreaction.
I think where we disagree is in how crappy the shifter is. I am a daily user so I am going to play that as my trump card.
Every model of vehicle made, has had the vehicles roll away or drive away. So the models with this shifter are NO exception. In most cases it really comes down to owner being responsible.Is the shifter different? Yes.
Have they moved away from it? Yes.
Is it unsafe to the point that a full recall is warranted? No.
Because the shifter is typically used on high end brands, successfully, it makes sense that Chrysler chose to use this ZF shifter on certain vehicles and a different ZF shifter on others.
I still firmly believe this is a mountain out of a molehill situation.
Mike, Imagine that my daughter ran out to see me when I got home the day my car decided to roll backwards because my tranny went into reverse instead of park like I thought it should have been since I pushed the shifter all the way forward just like I have done every other time I got home from work, I pushed the button to turn the car off but there was no alarm that the car was in reverse and that the engine didn't shut off, my car runs quiet enough that I don't always hear the engine running, plus I have been working in aviation for almost 2 decades so my hearing isn't the best, so when I unbuckled my seatbelt, released the brake, started to open my door, I felt the car move and quickly hit the brake and discovered the engine still running an the tranny in reverse. Our porch comes right to the back of our vehicles, right where my daughter may have ran in excitement to see me, and then all because of a piss poor design in the safety features in a shifter there would have been a situation that would have amounted to more than a freaking molehill. Safety isn't something you take lightly, an yes, accidents happens, and no, most of the times that this transmission doesn't end up in the exact gear you intended isn't carelessness of the driver. maybe something like this needs to happen to all the naysayers just to prove the point that the design sucks, it is a safety issue and I am glad Chrysler is taking care of it.No sir, I currently don't have one.
I still firmly believe this is a mountain out of a molehill situation.
Mike
Making a up a scenario isn't going to change my mind. The vehicle operator should NEVER exit a running vehicle if the car is not in park and/or the parking brake on.Mike, Imagine that my daughter ran out to see me when I got home the day my car decided to roll backwards because my tranny went into reverse instead of park like I thought it should have been since I pushed the shifter all the way forward just like I have done every other time I got home from work, I pushed the button to turn the car off but there was no alarm that the car was in reverse and that the engine didn't shut off, my car runs quiet enough that I don't always hear the engine running, plus I have been working in aviation for almost 2 decades so my hearing isn't the best, so when I unbuckled my seatbelt, released the brake, started to open my door, I felt the car move and quickly hit the brake and discovered the engine still running an the tranny in reverse. Our porch comes right to the back of our vehicles, right where my daughter may have ran in excitement to see me, and then all because of a piss poor design in the safety features in a shifter there would have been a situation that would have amounted to more than a freaking molehill. Safety isn't something you take lightly, an yes, accidents happens, and no, most of the times that this transmission doesn't end up in the exact gear you intended isn't carelessness of the driver. maybe something like this needs to happen to all the naysayers just to prove the point that the design sucks, it is a safety issue and I am glad Chrysler is taking care of it.
The lack of a key is an excuse. All vehicles with push button start can be turned off without a key.No matter how careless I treated my shifter on my truck, it always turned off when I turned the key to the off position no matter what gear I was in, it never decide to go into reverse when I slammed it into the park position even when I did it at the speed of light. The simple fix is to improve the warnings by sounding an alarm if I try to turn it off when I am not in park, take off my seatbelt if I am not in park, or open my door if I am not in park. Thats why the 2015 shifter was changed.
yet another comment coming from someone who has no knowledge of how the shifter works in real life, after I had my car roll on me I put myself and the car through a pretty comprehensive test, no matter how careful I was I could still get the tranny to be in the wrong gear that I intended it to be, I did the same thing to my minivan and it always ended up in the correct gear. Does it take this molehill to kill someone before we accept there is a design problem that could be fixed for safety reasons?Not having used the shifter, I lean toward believing you, a "different" shifter shouldn't be a big enough of a factor to be solely responsible for this. I'm very willing to believe this is a mountain out of a molehill situation.
Add me to the list who'd like to see all current production cars/trucks sold new in the USA through normal channels* have positive engagement Park positions on AT models.yet another comment coming from someone who has no knowledge of how the shifter works in real life, after I had my car roll on me I put myself and the car through a pretty comprehensive test, no matter how careful I was I could still get the tranny to be in the wrong gear that I intended it to be, I did the same thing to my minivan and it always ended up in the correct gear. Does it take this molehill to kill someone before we accept there is a design problem that could be fixed for safety reasons?
The newer vehicles are moving to different style shifter.Add me to the list who'd like to see all current production cars/trucks sold new in the USA through normal channels* have positive engagement Park positions on AT models.
*I'd make exceptions for privately imported vehicles above a certain age that are not USA or Canadian spec, in all fairness.![]()
I get it, you feel it's unsafe, and I respect that... But that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with your analysis. Please, be respectful of others opinions also.yet another comment coming from someone who has no knowledge of how the shifter works in real life, after I had my car roll on me I put myself and the car through a pretty comprehensive test, no matter how careful I was I could still get the tranny to be in the wrong gear that I intended it to be, I did the same thing to my minivan and it always ended up in the correct gear. Does it take this molehill to kill someone before we accept there is a design problem that could be fixed for safety reasons?
Mike I don't disagree with you.To anyone concerned about keyless ignition, from Section 5 Starting and Operating of the owners manual for all CJDR vehicles with keyless ignition:
To Turn Off The Engine Using ENGINE START/STOP Button
1. Place the shift lever/gear selector in PARK, then press and release the ENGINE START/STOP button.
2. The ignition switch will return to the OFF position.
3. If the shift lever/gear selector is not in PARK, the ENGINE START/STOP button must be held for two seconds or three short presses in a row with the vehicle speed above 5 mph (8 km/h) before the engine will shut off. The ignition switch position will remain in the ACC position until the shift lever/gear selector is in PARK and the button is pressed twice to the OFF position. If the shift lever/gear selector is not in PARK and the ENGINE START/STOP button is pressed once, the EVIC (if equipped) will display a “Vehicle Not In Park” message and the engine will remain running. Never leave a vehicle out of the PARK position, or it could roll.
Note that I added emphasis to item 3 for clarity.
In reference to #3, why would someone want to turn the engine off at speeds above 5mph? Did I read that right? (Not being snarky, honest question)To anyone concerned about keyless ignition, from Section 5 Starting and Operating of the owners manual for all CJDR vehicles with keyless ignition:
To Turn Off The Engine Using ENGINE START/STOP Button
1. Place the shift lever/gear selector in PARK, then press and release the ENGINE START/STOP button.
2. The ignition switch will return to the OFF position.
3. If the shift lever/gear selector is not in PARK, the ENGINE START/STOP button must be held for two seconds or three short presses in a row with the vehicle speed above 5 mph (8 km/h) before the engine will shut off. The ignition switch position will remain in the ACC position until the shift lever/gear selector is in PARK and the button is pressed twice to the OFF position. If the shift lever/gear selector is not in PARK and the ENGINE START/STOP button is pressed once, the EVIC (if equipped) will display a “Vehicle Not In Park” message and the engine will remain running. Never leave a vehicle out of the PARK position, or it could roll.
Note that I added emphasis to item 3 for clarity.
Mike
The Toyota unintended acceleration fiasco.In reference to #3, why would someone want to turn the engine off at speeds above 5mph? Did I read that right? (Not being snarky, honest question)
After I posted, I wondered if it was something along those lines. Thanks.The Toyota unintended acceleration fiasco.
First thing critics said, was why didn't these people just turn off the ignition with the key.
The response was, half the vehicles have push button start, how do you turn that off.
The reply to that was, you just have to press and hold the Start/Stop Button for 2 sec and the engine will shut off, its right in the owners manual.
Oh, no one reads the owners manual, what are you? Some sort of geek?
Only a tiny, tiny, minority of the public knew that. Including owners of the vehicles themselves, that never read their owners manual and never thought one thought about operating their vehicle other than steering the nose in the direction they want to go.
That was my question as well!!?? Also, the highlighted paragraph shows exactly WHY this shifter design is a total pile of crap. Yes, yes I know that FCA did not invent it (ZF did) but jeeeze they took a very simple action (move lever to Park and engage Parking brake and turn of engine) and turned it into a complete cluster. I remember when this shifter appeared and every single magazine that tested it hated it. (Mainly Audi and BMW) Some things dont need radical re-invention, period.In reference to #3, why would someone want to turn the engine off at speeds above 5mph? Did I read that right? (Not being snarky, honest question)
The Toyota unintended acceleration fiasco.
First thing critics said, was why didn't these people just turn off the ignition with the key.
The response was, half the vehicles have push button start, how do you turn that off.
The reply to that was, you just have to press and hold the Start/Stop Button for 2 sec and the engine will shut off, its right in the owners manual.
Oh, no one reads the owners manual, what are you? Some sort of geek?
Only a tiny, tiny, minority of the public knew that. Including owners of the vehicles themselves, that never read their owners manual and never thought one thought about operating their vehicle other than steering the nose in the direction they want to go.
That is simply no true. To engage park is the same action as a mechanical shifter... Push forward, hold lever, confirm park.That was my question as well!!?? Also, the highlighted paragraph shows exactly WHY this shifter design is a total pile of crap. Yes, yes I know that FCA did not invent it (ZF did) but jeeeze they took a very simple action (move lever to Park and engage Parking brake and turn of engine) and turned it into a complete cluster. I remember when this shifter appeared and every single magazine that tested it hated it. (Mainly Audi and BMW) Some things dont need radical re-invention, period.
Oh I agree with what you are saying for sure, but, being in the business of selling things like cars to the public means a company accepts certain risks and scenarios like yours above are the cost of doing business. Some events are a complete lack of common sense and some are less clear. The shifter was a radical change in the way transmissions were used and the companies that adopted them had to of known there was going to be a steep learning curve........and if they did not, the company was short sighted and/or in a hurry.Remember the "Cruise Control in the Rain" story that went around Social Media. Basically someone posted a retelling of a story about someone going out of control in heavy rain because they had their cruise control. Of course grossly exaggerated, claiming the vehicle went airborne, like a fighter jet launched off a carrier deck, with the engine totally out of control. The people posting and all the replies are, "I never knew this", "How can they build a car that can do this", etc, etc.
I always replied, "Open your owners manual and read it, it says to turn off the cruise control in the rainy and wet road conditions because of hydroplaning".