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Discussion Starter #1
New to this forum so I'm hoping someone can help. I have a 2008 Chrysler Sebring 2.4l base model. i'm having issues with starting. I just got a new battery and my throttle body cleaned at a dealership. i do not have a check engine light on either. When i start my car in the morning or at any point where it has been sitting for over a few hours it bogs in very low rpms and sometimes just outright stalls. I've read that it could be the MAP sensor but i'm not sure what to do and i do not want to spend mass amounts of money trying to find out whats wrong. The dealership has no idea what the problem is. They said it was the battery and that my throttle body needed cleaning so i had that performed and its still doing it. Yesterday my car wouldn't even start so I jumped it with my wife's car and it started right up. After i got the new battery today it starts but the bogging/hesitation is still there. Any ideas?
 

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Welcome to Allpar. Does it seem to be cranking over in the start position fast enough, or is the starter motor slow while cranking?
If you suspect a battery or starter problem, has the starter and wiring been checked? There may be a draw or high resistance.
Once it does start and has a low idle/bogging/hesitation, does that improve as it warms up?
Did the dealer actually have the car act up? It may be best to leave the vehicle the night before so they can diagnose this while it is happening in the morning, otherwise the shotgun approach will probably not fix the problem.
If you have already paid the diagnostic fee and the problem is still there, they should be able to waive any further diagnostic fee for you and get to the root cause (if can act up for them).
There are a number of software flashes availible, depending on when yours was built. Did the dealer update the PCM/TCM controllers?

http://www.wkjeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk_0800308.pdf

http://www.automd.com/tsb/bulletin_b237270/



Vehicle Issue

Hard start, long crank time.;Customer may complain that when the vehicle starts engine runs rough for a few seconds.

System or Component

Engine Misfire,Starting Issues,Hard Start, Long Crank Time;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Group 14 - Fuel System,Fuel Rail,Injectors;Engine Idling;Yes - Intermittent;Fuel Pressure,Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Quality,Fuel Volume Low,Fuel Injectors,Leaking Injectors,Injector Bleed Down

Recommendation

If there are any codes active in any of the ECUs they should be corrected using TechCONNECT first before continuing. If there are any stored codes in any ECUs document all the Freeze Frame information on the repair order. Stored DTC(s) and Freeze Frame information should be determined if it is symptom related of the customer’s complaint. If there are no DTC(s) stored or active this could be caused by a leaking injector(s). Install a fuel PSI gauge to the fuel system to check the fuel PSI (spec is 58 +or- 5psi) with engine running. The fuel PSI should reach the spec on initial key to run cycle. Fuel pressure bleed down should also be checked when the engine is shut off. Fuel PSI bleed down rate, should not decrease more than 1LB a 1 Minute. If the fuel PSI is not maintaining pull the injector rail with injector tip upside-down and check for fuel pooling in the injector tip(s). If there is fuel pooling in a given injector replace as needed per the TechCONNECT service information. After a repair has been made, retest the vehicle for any codes or issues before releasing the vehicle to customer.

Modification Date

10/31/07 8:58 AM





Vehicle Issue

Start and stall. Hard start/long crank. No start.;No start, hard starting after filling fuel tank. Engine would start with throttle assist. Engine runs rough until system clears out. Problem eliminated if purge blocked off. Found faulty purge solenoid. Upon examination of solenoid with cover removed, solenoid traval limit screw was found to be backed out too far. 10mm measurement from base of solenoid to head of screw. Replacement solenoid screw adjustment at 2mm. Replacement of solenoid repaired condition.

System or Component

Die out / Stall,Long Crank During Restart,Runs Poor After Restart,Will not Restart,Starting Issues,Hard Start, Long Crank Time,No Start,Engine Cranks,Start and stall;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Group 18 - Vehicle Performance / Driveability;Starting Vehicle;Yes - Intermittent

Recommendation

Replaced purge solenoid.

Modification Date

01/02/08 1:18 PM
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ImperialCrown said:
Welcome to Allpar. Does it seem to be cranking over in the start position fast enough, or is the starter motor slow while cranking?
If you suspect a battery or starter problem, has the starter and wiring been checked? There may be a draw or high resistance.
Once it does start and has a low idle/bogging/hesitation, does that improve as it warms up?
Did the dealer actually have the car act up? It may be best to leave the vehicle the night before so they can diagnose this while it is happening in the morning, otherwise the shotgun approach will probably not fix the problem.
If you have already paid the diagnostic fee and the problem is still there, they should be able to waive any further diagnostic fee for you and get to the root cause (if can act up for them).
There are a number of software flashes availible, depending on when yours was built. Did the dealer update the PCM/TCM controllers?

http://www.wkjeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk_0800308.pdf

http://www.automd.com/tsb/bulletin_b237270/


Vehicle Issue Hard start, long crank time.;Customer may complain that when the vehicle starts engine runs rough for a few seconds. System or Component Engine Misfire,Starting Issues,Hard Start, Long Crank Time;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Group 14 - Fuel System,Fuel Rail,Injectors;Engine Idling;Yes - Intermittent;Fuel Pressure,Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Quality,Fuel Volume Low,Fuel Injectors,Leaking Injectors,Injector Bleed Down Recommendation If there are any codes active in any of the ECUs they should be corrected using TechCONNECT first before continuing. If there are any stored codes in any ECUs document all the Freeze Frame information on the repair order. Stored DTC(s) and Freeze Frame information should be determined if it is symptom related of the customer’s complaint. If there are no DTC(s) stored or active this could be caused by a leaking injector(s). Install a fuel PSI gauge to the fuel system to check the fuel PSI (spec is 58 +or- 5psi) with engine running. The fuel PSI should reach the spec on initial key to run cycle. Fuel pressure bleed down should also be checked when the engine is shut off. Fuel PSI bleed down rate, should not decrease more than 1LB a 1 Minute. If the fuel PSI is not maintaining pull the injector rail with injector tip upside-down and check for fuel pooling in the injector tip(s). If there is fuel pooling in a given injector replace as needed per the TechCONNECT service information. After a repair has been made, retest the vehicle for any codes or issues before releasing the vehicle to customer. Modification Date
10/31/07 8:58 AM



Vehicle Issue Start and stall. Hard start/long crank. No start.;No start, hard starting after filling fuel tank. Engine would start with throttle assist. Engine runs rough until system clears out. Problem eliminated if purge blocked off. Found faulty purge solenoid. Upon examination of solenoid with cover removed, solenoid traval limit screw was found to be backed out too far. 10mm measurement from base of solenoid to head of screw. Replacement solenoid screw adjustment at 2mm. Replacement of solenoid repaired condition. System or Component Die out / Stall,Long Crank During Restart,Runs Poor After Restart,Will not Restart,Starting Issues,Hard Start, Long Crank Time,No Start,Engine Cranks,Start and stall;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Group 18 - Vehicle Performance / Driveability;Starting Vehicle;Yes - Intermittent Recommendation Replaced purge solenoid. Modification Date
01/02/08 1:18 PM
thanks for the reply. yea the dealer didn't have my car overnight because they said they didn''t need to. they said that due to the dead/dying battery it messed something up with the throttle body or something and it needed remapped they performed that. my car is not stalling now on start up and it is actually starting up but it is still hesitating a few seconds and bogs in low rpm's for a few seconds then idle's at normal rpm range. after the initial start up, lets say in the morning, i can turn the car on and off as many times as i want and it will fire right up with no problems. it's when the car sits for a duration of time like when i'm at work and then go to leave at night.
 

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Have a battery 'ignition off' draw test done. Something may be draining it. It may be more than that and letting the dealer actually experience the problem is the first step in a correct diagnosis from them. Replacing batteries on a guess is just irresponsible. Testing a discharged battery will not offer valid test result.
The throttle body is electronic control (no throttle cable) and the accelerator pedal position sensor (APPS) does need a relearn after any throttle body or PCM service. It shouldn't need a relearn from a dead battery, unless a glitch somehow occurs.
The latest PCM/TCM software update may help with the bogging/hesitation issue. If the vehicle is under 80,000 miles, this should be covered.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ImperialCrown said:
Have a battery 'ignition off' draw test done. Something may be draining it. It may be more than that and letting the dealer actually experience the problem is the first step in a correct diagnosis from them. Replacing batteries on a guess is just irresponsible. Testing a discharged battery will not offer valid test result.
The throttle body is electronic control (no throttle cable) and the accelerator pedal position sensor (APPS) does need a relearn after any throttle body or PCM service. It shouldn't need a relearn from a dead battery, unless a glitch somehow occurs.
The latest PCM/TCM software update may help with the bogging/hesitation issue. If the vehicle is under 80,000 miles, this should be covered.
thank you for the reply. ok, so i did what you said, well i did two things. i took my car to advance auto parts and had them do the ignition off test done and something is drawing power from my battery when the car is off. it was reading 1.55 and the tech told me that .6 and below is whats normal. secondly i called the nearby chrysler dodge dealership and asked them about the pcm/tcm update. they took my vin and told me that my car has had all recalls serviced so i'm guessing that the pcm/tcm update was a recall. So all in all i have no luck still with my car. i've contacted the dealership that i bought it from and they told me that they are gonna need me to leave the car there to find out whats wrong. it's just a hassle because the dealership is 2 hours away from me and the preowned certified warranty is only good if i bring it to them. i've already taken it there 3 times since i bought the car and i paid for a new battery and throttle body cleaning cause it wasn't covered in the warranty. i'm just getting very frustrated.
 

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My brother bought a new 92 Dakota and it went through 4 batteries in 9 years. He went to three different dealerships to find out why the battery would go dead in a month of sitting. They never discovered why. He sold the truck to me in 2003, and I found the cause very quickly - the tachometer drive board *by design* was drawing 100 mA of current with the engine off. I rewired it to run off the ignition only and eliminated the problem.

The "1.55" would be 1.55 amps. But what they probably told you was normal was 0.06 amps, NOT 0.6 amps. 0.6 would definitely indicate a flaw.
 

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Try to make arrangements to leave the car with them for an overnight and the next day. Give them the time they need to fix it right. They should have no trouble waiving the diagnostic fee as you've already paid that and the vehicle still isn't fixed.
The software updates aren't 'recalls'. They would have to see what part numbers the modules are at and then determine if updates are available.
1.55 amps draw would pull a battery down overnight. This has to be diagnosed and repaired.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
ImperialCrown said:
Try to make arrangements to leave the car with them for an overnight and the next day. Give them the time they need to fix it right. They should have no trouble waiving the diagnostic fee as you've already paid that and the vehicle still isn't fixed.
The software updates aren't 'recalls'. They would have to see what part numbers the modules are at and then determine if updates are available.
1.55 amps draw would pull a battery down overnight. This has to be diagnosed and repaired.
choeseph said:
Try to make arrangements to leave the car with them for an overnight and the next day. Give them the time they need to fix it right. They should have no trouble waiving the diagnostic fee as you've already paid that and the vehicle still isn't fixed.
The software updates aren't 'recalls'. They would have to see what part numbers the modules are at and then determine if updates are available.
1.55 amps draw would pull a battery down overnight. This has to be diagnosed and repaired.
thanks for the reply again. Ok so i did what you said and i left the vehicle at the dealership. Im making arrangements for tomorrow to get the car back. He explained to me over the phone that they traced the battery drain back to the fuse panel. I replied asking "so a fuse was blown then?" and he said no the fuse panel was drawing the excess power from the battery because of a bad connection/connector when the car was off. so they replaced the connector and monitored the battery for today throught the day to check and see if it fixed it. He said that that was the issue and its good to go. Does any of thus make sense really ? To be honest is seems like the dealership is giving me the run around. I just don't want to be somewhere and have my car not start.
 

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Could they be more specific about which connector was at fault and its function? A poor or open connection usually draws 'less' current than it should. If it were causing a module like the BCM not to go to sleep after key-off, that could cause an excessive overnight battery draw.
It may help to speak directly with the technician. Usually the back of the repair order hard copy that goes to the dealer files has the technician's notes on it and sometimes the Service Advisor only gives the customer a generic description of the problem. Ask.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
ImperialCrown said:
Could they be more specific about which connector was at fault and its function? A poor or open connection usually draws 'less' current than it should. If it were causing a module like the BCM not to go to sleep after key-off, that could cause an excessive overnight battery draw.
It may help to speak directly with the technician. Usually the back of the repair order hard copy that goes to the dealer files has the technician's notes on it and sometimes the Service Advisor only gives the customer a generic description of the problem. Ask.
ok so here's what the write up says they gave me, found contact problem from integrated power module,installed dielectric grease to all plugs for better contact
 

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Well still not really enough information to determine either the affected component or the root cause. Is the problem fixed now? If a module stays awake it will draw excessive current overnight while the car sits.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ImperialCrown said:
Well still not really enough information to determine either the affected component or the root cause. Is the problem fixed now? If a module stays awake it will draw excessive current overnight while the car sits.
it seems to be fixed....its been a few days and the car hasn't died it not started...but it just so happens that I am sitting in my car on base and just started it up and it actually took longer to start...like it was turning over for a few seconds longer and now im getting very paranoid
 
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