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That’s funny. I work in an automotive assembly plant and if you think that’s what the line stop is for you’re kidding yourself. Best chance the vehicle gets is an extra bit of time in weld alignment otherwise it’s “ship it”.

Wasn’t trying to be funny - dead serious. Workers that are aware that they are building a defective product should report the problem to their supervisor and/or quality control employees.
 

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Wasn’t trying to be funny - dead serious. Workers that are aware that they are building a defective product should report the problem to their supervisor and/or quality control employees.
I wouldn't assume they did not do so. In other words, perhaps they already reported it.
 

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I've always wanted a Jeep. I looked at the Jeep web site after seeing an ad for the Grand Wagoneer. My first impression was shock at the price! I assumed that both the Grand Wagoneer as well as the Wagoneer would be out of my price range, but I wanted to look at them. I'm retired and although I have a fairly comfortable income, a vehicle that easily reaches over one hundred thousand dollars is not something I'll be buying.

Something else I found shocking was the fact that although the GW is all four wheel drive, the Wagoneer, which isn't all that much cheaper, is standard with only two wheel drive!

The Jeep brand should be four wheel drive from the bottom to the top! If Subaru can do it...., there is no reason Jeep cannot.

This thread about questionable quality control for vehicles at the top of the Jeep brand is also disturbing. At the published prices, ill-fitting body panels have no place on these vehicles.

My current vehicle, a 2013 T&C Touring-L has been pretty good. I only have about 57,000 miles on it, but the only real complaint I have is the corrosion around the sharp edges on the front of the aluminum hood. Every fifth generation T&C or GC over three or four years old around here has it. I tried and tried to get them to do something about it, but every time I tried, they just would 'close' the case without any action.
They replaced and painted the hood on our 2014 and it was past the 3/36000 warranty . Somehow they covered it under the perforation warranty .
 
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Wasn’t trying to be funny - dead serious. Workers that are aware that they are building a defective product should report the problem to their supervisor and/or quality control employees.
You can report it all you want but if someone that makes more money than you says it’s fine then they just keep going down the line.
 

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Every vehicle I have owned has some misalignments. My 2021 GMC Yukon has some slight misalignments on the tailgate, but it functions just fine.

My 2020 Ram's hood was poorly misaligned(I fixed it) and the driver door is really bad and sticks out at the top edge. I have asked the dealer about this and not much help and looking it over, there is not much I can do as there are no adjustments that can be made. The only solution is to heat the door frame bend it back into place.

That said, I would be very irritated with a 100k vehicle and misaligned panels.
 

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You can report it all you want but if someone that makes more money than you says it’s fine then they just keep going down the line.
Right. And that's why you never blame the guy on the line.

Even if the guy on the line is the one at fault, there are supposed to be systems to catch and fix that, including, I might add, firing the guy who's screwing up. Any supervisor or manager who can't do that is the one at fault, because that's their job. I'm not saying incompetent bums are blameless, but I am saying most of the guys on the line will do what the managers tell them to do - both in words and in actions. If the manager says "we care about quality" and you stop the line because you're hanging doors incorrectly because the machinery is off or you just don't have enough time, and the manager starts cussin’ you out, well, the manager's actions say "I don't give a crap about quality, just keep the line moving." That's the norm.

There's a reason why the same people - the same union people - made up GM's worst factory and one of Toyota's best.
 
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Right. And that's why you never blame the guy on the line.

Even if the guy on the line is the one at fault, there are supposed to be systems to catch and fix that, including, I might add, firing the guy who's screwing up. Any supervisor or manager who can't do that is the one at fault, because that's their job. I'm not saying incompetent bums are blameless, but I am saying most of the guys on the line will do what the managers tell them to do - both in words and in actions. If the manager says "we care about quality" and you stop the line because you're hanging doors incorrectly because the machinery is off or you just don't have enough time, and the manager starts cussin’ you out, well, the manager's actions say "I don't give a crap about quality, just keep the line moving." That's the norm.

There's a reason why the same people - the same union people - made up GM's worst factory and one of Toyota's best.

I always had a feeling that you were pro-union and anti-management.
 

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I always had a feeling that you were pro-union and anti-management.
It's not about being pro or anti any level of worker. I don't want to speak for Dave but what I took from his response is it's about having a culture of quality throughout the workforce. And I agree. Management is one of the significant "checks" in the system. Attitudes are very much from the top down in larger organizations.
 

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It all starts at the top. Blaming some unionized assembly worker is ludicrous.

Anyone remember the fuss that Lido made over the '81-'83 Imperial? Those cars were perfect when the folks at Windsor built them.

In my own experiences, I had a '77 Fury which was surprisingly good, a '79 R body that was a hot mess of quality issues, and a decent '91 Dynosaur. I've had very good '81, '82, '85, '86, and '89 M-bodies. I've had a '94 and an '04 Crown Vic, 1 LX Charger, and 3 LD's.

None of my other vehicles were as good of quality that I had with any M body I've owned.
 

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The standards raise as the price does. This isn't a Jeep only issue by any stretch- early runs of the new Mercedes S-class had misaligned trunk lids and customers were livid about it. This needs to be fixed quickly or the "Chrysler junk" talking points will stick.
Don't forget that no matter what price the car is the guy on the line is making the same amount of money.
 

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It all starts at the top. Blaming some unionized assembly worker is ludicrous.

Anyone remember the fuss that Lido made over the '81-'83 Imperial? Those cars were perfect when the folks at Windsor built them.

In my own experiences, I had a '77 Fury which was surprisingly good, a '79 R body that was a hot mess of quality issues, and a decent '91 Dynosaur. I've had very good '81, '82, '85, '86, and '89 M-bodies. I've had a '94 and an '04 Crown Vic, 1 LX Charger, and 3 LD's.

None of my other vehicles were as good of quality that I had with any M body I've owned.
My 70, 74 and 78 cars had water leaks. Everything after that has been no problems to speak of. I have never had a Chrysler product that failed an engine or transmission or a rear end or any major electronic gizmo, computer etc. I am on my 4th mini-van and they have all been bullet proof. Had 2 K-cars which were amazingly good.
 

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I always had a feeling that you were pro-union and anti-management.
Only those who have no reason rely on labels.

I'm in the trade - I'm an organizational psychologist. You may recall this guy named “Deming” who expounded all this back in the 1940s. You can't observe organizations for any length of time and NOT come to these conclusions. I've seen the same people go into different companies and act totally differently in each one, depending on the local culture. Not to mention NUMMI when they switched from GM management to Toyota leadership.

I haven't been in a union since I stopped selling shoes.
 

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Well here we go again!
The LIFT GATE on all units built are having a bad fit and finish, they all are misaligned the gaps are uneven and they simply don't match with tail lamps and other panels, shame on the managers, Shame in Stellantis "quality" .
The vehicle is new and very expensive, it should have the very best quality. We noticed that problem long ago, they just said as always they are going to fix it, but it never happened.
I'm Disappointed 😞☹
Automotive parking light Automotive tail & brake light Car Automotive side marker light Grille

Automotive parking light Automotive side marker light Land vehicle Automotive tail & brake light Vehicle
 
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Only those who have no reason rely on labels.

I'm in the trade - I'm an organizational psychologist. You may recall this guy named “Deming” who expounded all this back in the 1940s. You can't observe organizations for any length of time and NOT come to these conclusions. I've seen the same people go into different companies and act totally differently in each one, depending on the local culture. Not to mention NUMMI when they switched from GM management to Toyota leadership.

I haven't been in a union since I stopped selling shoes.

I agree with you about a company or organization’s culture. I do feel strongly that the culture starts at the top (no matter how big or small an organization), and its leader(s) set the tone for the organization.

While in college (quite some time ago......), I recall taking required courses involving psychology and abnormal psychology. I fondly remember the abnormal psychology professor, and enjoyed that course immensely.

I have felt for some time that many unionized workforce’s in the USA develop an “us against them” mentality, which is fostered by their leadership. Quality and professional work ends up taking a backseat to the “us” mentality.
 
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