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MoparNorm said:
A good example, is CNH. Regional headquarters remain, combined headquarters moved to a neutral, low tax location.
That is likely the model for a Fiat/Chrysler, Chrysler in Auburn Hill, Fiat in Turin and the new HQ in a neutral, low tax location, with minimal, administrative operations housed there.
This is the exact scenario that should be expected.

Mike
 

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OK. Where is this neutral low-tax location?

Because if it's anywhere other than the United States, there will still be plenty of folks that will still consider it to be "foreign ownership."

Not that it bothers me, mind you - but it obviously bothers some.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
OK. Where is this neutral low-tax location?

Because if it's anywhere other than the United States, there will still be plenty of folks that will still consider it to be "foreign ownership."

Not that it bothers me, mind you - but it obviously bothers some.
I will defer to the Allpar News story on November 29th, 2012 entitled "Fiat/CNH deal may show future of Fiat Chrysler".

And the Reuters article from February 21st, 2013 announcing that the Fiat Industrial board had approved the merger with CNH.

Only time will tell. With the EU possibly raiding bank accounts, the US looks pretty enticing.

Mike
 

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It would not be surprising if they share a building with CNH in the Netherlands....easier on Sergio's travel schedule.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
OK. Where is this neutral low-tax location?

Because if it's anywhere other than the United States, there will still be plenty of folks that will still consider it to be "foreign ownership."

Not that it bothers me, mind you - but it obviously bothers some.
Well it will bother many, and bother me, and bother Italians, but I don't see a good financial reason to be in either Italy or the US, taxes are simply too high.
Maybe some off shore location like the Caymans, or Texas... ;)
 

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The Focus/Corolla etc., may very well be a POC or POP, I'm not debating that, however comparing the Dart to the Focus size category is akin to comparing the Taurus to the Dart. Does the Dart have may room than the Focus etc? Of course, it's a much bigger vehicle. Does the Taurus have more passenger space than the Dart? It better have, it's a much bigger vehicle. IMHO Dodge would benefit from having a small car to compete in that category with the Focus/Corolla vehicles. I think many many shoppers looking for a Focus/Corolla size vehicle will not cross shop to a vehicle the size of the Dart. Even the Cruze is a bit smaller than the Dart, but the Cruze has just as much passenger space (interior and trunk), as the Dart.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
Let's say for argument's sake that, once the companies are officially combined - they move the HQ to Auburn Hills. Does that change some opinions?

Now let's say they move it to Turin. Better or worse?
Strat, I would be very happy if they moved the Fiat-Chrysler HQ to Auburn Hills. I would at that point think of Fiat as an American car company and would consider buying one if it was assembled in the US. However if they moved Chrysler HQ to Turin I would probably start buying Fords or GMs. I don’t have anything against Italians (my family came here from Italy), Asians or anyone else for that matter. I just can’t stand to see more Americans get laid off.
 

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Why would you think that people would get fired? It's not as if they moved HQ to Turin (or the NL more likely), the Auburn Hills building would be vacated.

Every major region will keep (or develop from scratch in the case of Asia) an equal sized HQ. The one in Brazil is being beefed up to greatly expand the local style and design capabilities, and a new one will open in China with a style studio to capture local preferences.

People get strange ideas IMO.
 

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Bermuda... a postal box. Maybe even an address shared with other multinationals...

Our real corporate taxes aren't that high, the nominal tax is higher than average, but the average tax paid is lower than average. It's like college tuition, the list price is $50,000 but the average paid is $24,000 (numbers pulled out of my ... but you can see both these numbers in the US News college book). Or hospital pricing, "That'll be $50,000 but we'll take $5,000 from the insurance company and $1,000 from you." Of course corporate tax rates vary by industry, Congressional campaign contributions, accounting cleverness/dishonesty, etc. (I'm personally all for lower corporate tax rates -- if we clean up all the loopholes. Unfortunately, those who campaign on lower corporate taxes also believe that eliminating any loophole is a "back door tax hike." Apparently doing both at the same time is unacceptable, but I think it would be a lot more fair and save money all 'round if we did a revenue-neutral corporate tax cut/loophole elimination.)

Anyway, since yes, we are racing to the bottom, I'm thinking the Netherlands might be too grand, when the Cayman Islands are beckoning. It's not like you need any actual employees at your headquarters.
 

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Dart 4 door sedan
Length 183.9 in
Width 72.0 in
Height  57.7 in
 
Focus 4 door sedan
Length 178.5 in
Width 71.8 in
Height 57.7
 
Yeah, the Dart just simply dwarfs the Focus, it's positively huge.  That 5.4 inches of extra overall length (a whole 2.7 inches on center, front and rear) just ruins the car for everyone.  Might as well be a full size sedan at this point. Chrysler really blew it on this one.  Sorry, how do I use that sarcasm function again? This should all be highlighted in yellow.
I kid, I kid.

Mike
The Focus/Corolla etc., may very well be a POC or POP, I'm not debating that, however comparing the Dart to the Focus size category is akin to comparing the Taurus to the Dart. Does the Dart have may room than the Focus etc? Of course, it's a much bigger vehicle. Does the Taurus have more passenger space than the Dart? It better have, it's a much bigger vehicle. IMHO Dodge would benefit from having a small car to compete in that category with the Focus/Corolla vehicles. I think many many shoppers looking for a Focus/Corolla size vehicle will not cross shop to a vehicle the size of the Dart. Even the Cruze is a bit smaller than the Dart, but the Cruze has just as much passenger space (interior and trunk), as the Dart.
 

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Bermuda... a postal box. Maybe even an address shared with other multinationals...

Our real corporate taxes aren't that high, the nominal tax is higher than average, but the average tax paid is lower than average. It's like college tuition, the list price is $50,000 but the average paid is $24,000 (numbers pulled out of my ... but you can see both these numbers in the US News college book). Or hospital pricing, "That'll be $50,000 but we'll take $5,000 from the insurance company and $1,000 from you." Of course corporate tax rates vary by industry, Congressional campaign contributions, accounting cleverness/dishonesty, etc. (I'm personally all for lower corporate tax rates -- if we clean up all the loopholes. Unfortunately, those who campaign on lower corporate taxes also believe that eliminating any loophole is a "back door tax hike." Apparently doing both at the same time is unacceptable, but I think it would be a lot more fair and save money all 'round if we did a revenue-neutral corporate tax cut/loophole elimination.)
I actually agree with this too. I think there are lots of loop holes that need to be closed in the system in general. Of course... a flat tax system with a clean sheet would be great.
Anyway, since yes, we are racing to the bottom, I'm thinking the Netherlands might be too grand, when the Cayman Islands are beckoning. It's not like you need any actual employees at your headquarters.
I think I crashed us into the bottom of the barrel ;) Oh well, the water and beach here in the Cayman's is just spectacular.

Mike
 

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Andy4.7 said:
Strat, I would be very happy if they moved the Fiat-Chrysler HQ to Auburn Hills. I would at that point think of Fiat as an American car company and would consider buying one if it was assembled in the US. However if they moved Chrysler HQ to Turin I would probably start buying Fords or GMs. I don’t have anything against Italians (my family came here from Italy), Asians or anyone else for that matter. I just can’t stand to see more Americans get laid off.
So, today, you wouldn't consider buying a Town & Country, Grand Caravan, 300, Charger, Challenger, Journey, Fiat 500, or Ram HD truck? None of those vehicles are built in the U.S. either.

No one said anything about laying anyone off - simply the HQ location of the combined companies.

Fiat Automobile and Chrysler Group LLC are today, for all intents and purposes, operating as one company.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
So, today, you wouldn't consider buying a Town & Country, Grand Caravan, 300, Charger, Challenger, Journey, Fiat 500, or Ram HD truck? None of those vehicles are built in the U.S. either.

No one said anything about laying anyone off - simply the HQ location of the combined companies.

Fiat Automobile and Chrysler Group LLC are today, for all intents and purposes, operating as one company.
No, I wouldn't consider any of those cars. I know most people don't care where things are made anymore, but I believe that's why we have high un-employment.
 

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Andy4.7 said:
Strat, I would be very happy if they moved the Fiat-Chrysler HQ to Auburn Hills. I would at that point think of Fiat as an American car company and would consider buying one if it was assembled in the US. However if they moved Chrysler HQ to Turin I would probably start buying Fords or GMs. I don’t have anything against Italians (my family came here from Italy), Asians or anyone else for that matter. I just can’t stand to see more Americans get laid off.
So your assumption is, if Fiat-Chrysler move their world headquarters to anywhere outside of the US it automatically means Americans will get laid off?

Mike
 

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Mike V. said:
So your assumption is, if Fiat-Chrysler move their world headquarters to anywhere outside of the US it automatically means Americans will get laid off?

Mike
Yeah Mike, that's the way I see it. Don't you think there would be some overlapping positions, that would be eliminated?
 

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Andy --

The Fiat Chrysler merger resulted in the hiring of thousands of engineers.

Production of blocks and cams and cranks was brought back to the USA from China and Mexico.

So far there have been no overlapping positions eliminated, as far as I know, other than the Chrysler CEO and a couple of the other high level executives who are doing double duty.
 

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IIRC, every Chrysler plant in the US is operating on multiple shifts, or is planned to. Lots of hires made recently to get Toledo North staffed from what I'm told.
 

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Andy4.7 said:
Yeah Mike, that's the way I see it. Don't you think there would be some overlapping positions, that would be eliminated?
I think Dave and Strat answered for me.

Mike
 

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Andy4.7 said:
Yeah Mike, that's the way I see it. Don't you think there would be some overlapping positions, that would be eliminated?
Andy, if you worry about jobs, The HQ going to Turin, NL or AH means just a dozen of people in overlap. It is about Tax and is almost a formal issue.
 
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