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Unfortunately, given the new plan just announced that appears to be the case. Now, they may facelift them too. Four years is an eternity to keep old cars around and do nothing with them. They've just about exhausted their supply of taped on decals and stickers.
Most of us knew that nothing was actually coming from FCA for Dodge and Chrysler. Their incompetence will continue to hurt Dodge and Chrysler for 3-5 years until new product can be designed, tested and launched.
 

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I remember I asked on this forum about the time the new GC was announced if cars could be built on this all new platform. No one answered. I asked this question because if that is indeed the case, then that was a smart move. It does appear that cars will be built on this with the recent announcements. That'll likely be a big part of the next round of contract talks for Canada and the US. The two Bs, Brampton and Belvedere.
 

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I remember I asked on this forum about the time the new GC was announced if cars could be built on this all new platform. No one answered. I asked this question because if that is indeed the case, then that was a smart move. It does appear that cars will be built on this with the recent announcements. That'll likely be a big part of the next round of contract talks for Canada and the US. The two Bs, Brampton and Belvedere.
I think we need to take what we know and what Imparato has said.

He said that they were working on a new STLA Large architecture. We know that something all-new is under the Grand Cherokee/Grand Cherokee L. It is possible that these may be two different architectures.

Why?

It seems that FCA lacked the technology to design architectures with electrification in mind. We see the disappointing results from the Wrangler 4xe, Maserati Levante Hybrid and the Alfa Tonale.

The Grand Cherokee/Grand Cherokee L will offer some electrification (we saw video proof). But it might not be up to PSA technology and standards. Remember, it was designed and locked-in prior to the completion of the merger. If they started with Giorgio, it required enough changes and investment to warrant the "all-new" label.

But maybe those changes were not enough to meet the new Stellantis standards. It works as a stopgap.

FCA was going to keep redesigning this "all-new" architecture for each vehicle application....losing the economies of scale that PSA gets from its architectures.

When Imparato said Giorgio was being dropped (and then partially walked it back), it is possible that he meant that after the hybrid Giulia/Stelvio, there will be no more Giorgio. An all-new STLA Large was being designed that would support all versions of electrification using PSA in-house technology rather than outsourced/purchased tech that FCA was pursuing.

This delays a new Charger/Challenger, but they would be coming on a truly cutting edge architecture instead of an inferior, outdated one that was narrowly tailored to Alfa.
 

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I think we need to take what we know and what Imparato has said.

He said that they were working on a new STLA Large architecture. We know that something all-new is under the Grand Cherokee/Grand Cherokee L. It is possible that these may be two different architectures.

Why?

It seems that FCA lacked the technology to design architectures with electrification in mind. We see the disappointing results from the Wrangler 4xe, Maserati Levante Hybrid and the Alfa Tonale.

The Grand Cherokee/Grand Cherokee L will offer some electrification (we saw video proof). But it might not be up to PSA technology and standards. Remember, it was designed and locked-in prior to the completion of the merger. If they started with Giorgio, it required enough changes and investment to warrant the "all-new" label.

But maybe those changes were not enough to meet the new Stellantis standards. It works as a stopgap.

FCA was going to keep redesigning this "all-new" architecture for each vehicle application....losing the economies of scale that PSA gets from its architectures.

When Imparato said Giorgio was being dropped (and then partially walked it back), it is possible that he meant that after the hybrid Giulia/Stelvio, there will be no more Giorgio. An all-new STLA Large was being designed that would support all versions of electrification using PSA in-house technology rather than outsourced/purchased tech that FCA was pursuing.

This delays a new Charger/Challenger, but they would be coming on a truly cutting edge architecture instead of an inferior, outdated one that was narrowly tailored to Alfa.
They didn't lack the technology, they lacked the will. This is about a lack of management vision, not engineering competency.
 

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They didn't lack the technology, they lacked the will. This is about a lack of management vision, not engineering competency.
Will, leadership, forethought to make financial decisions based on longer term good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #350 ·
I wonder if they plan on reporting Grand Cherokee L sales separately from the non-L version for us to see if the Jeep brand does bring more sales (aka Durango vs Grand Cherokee-L).

The Durango averaged, what, 5k sales per month.
 

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I wonder if they plan on reporting Grand Cherokee L sales separately from the non-L version for us to see if the Jeep brand does bring more sales (aka Durango vs Grand Cherokee-L).

The Durango averaged, what, 5k sales per month.
Not a fair comparison of brands with a brand new truck with one that should have been replaced 5 years ago.
 

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I wonder if they plan on reporting Grand Cherokee L sales separately from the non-L version for us to see if the Jeep brand does bring more sales (aka Durango vs Grand Cherokee-L).

The Durango averaged, what, 5k sales per month.
Not likely, in the past different versions of the same vehicle were always listed together. They didn't break out Grand vs. regular minivans, or Classic vs. new Ram.
 

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Not likely, in the past different versions of the same vehicle were always listed together. They didn't break out Grand vs. regular minivans, or Classic vs. new Ram.
I agree that we're not likely to see it, but it would be interesting.
 

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Not likely, in the past different versions of the same vehicle were always listed together. They didn't break out Grand vs. regular minivans, or Classic vs. new Ram.
Or Wrangler vs Wrangler Unlimited

We can keep a watch on Durango sales to see if there is any impact.
 

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The one item I have missed were the pages that talked about future vehicles.

Do we have a good guestimate on what each of the brand may look like over the next few years? Not talking what we WANT to see but what we think will launch.

Could I take a stab at it and please tweak where you think I may be wrong?

Jeep
Renegade
Compass
2-Door Wrangler
Cherokee
4-Door Wrangler
Gladiator
Grand Cherokee
Grand Cherokee L
Wagoneer
Wagoneer L
Grand Wagoneer
Grand Wagoneer L

Dodge
Charger
Challenger

Chrysler
Voyager
Pacifica

Ram
1500
2500
3500
Promaster
Promaster City

tweak away.
An electrified HD 3500 will be very interesting! But worthless.
 

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An electrified HD 3500 will be very interesting! But worthless.
A little off topic and a bit TL;DR.
What is wrong with a 3500 Hybrid? :) You just have to be creative and it doesn't need to duplicate a feature that a powertrain already has. Some sort of low-rev throttle assist or at-idle creep mode for precise parking/loading/hook-up (A 4X4 E-Low mode?). Or a temporary cab heater mode that can be used rather than idling. A little warm air in the cab while getting fuel that requires the engine to be off. A fan drawing residual heat.
Maybe a separate use Holiday Hybrid model. A hybrid power only plug in the box for the electric cooler, ice maker, radio, retractable HDMI, multiple USB ports with UConntrol Wireless® and whatever app that can have an always-charged Uconnect-XL Drone® Vertical Lock with a max height limit of three meters. A beacon light floating over your truck for when you lost it at Costco. The Mopar Lot Mapping app will show you the closest empty spot with the turn by turn instructions. The truck must be in Park for the drone to surveil the area in panoramic view mode.
The Hybrid Power Plug® can be used by a low load assist Mopar Box Winch Kit® loaded into a Premium Box E-Utility Group. (Don't drive the toy into the back window.) The regenerative braking returns will be HUGE and could do the job. A sip from the Cummins occasionally.
Does this all need Hybrid tech? No, but it sure would be fun and expensive. Just a power source separate of any batteries designed for the operation of the vehicle but can be one-way charged with no load on the engine. Essentially a possible 3 battery truck. Plus a few more Hybrid © ® ™ terms plastered on everything by marketing or whoever.
 

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A little off topic and a bit TL;DR.
What is wrong with a 3500 Hybrid? :) You just have to be creative and it doesn't need to duplicate a feature that a powertrain already has. Some sort of low-rev throttle assist or at-idle creep mode for precise parking/loading/hook-up (A 4X4 E-Low mode?). Or a temporary cab heater mode that can be used rather than idling. A little warm air in the cab while getting fuel that requires the engine to be off. A fan drawing residual heat.
Maybe a separate use Holiday Hybrid model. A hybrid power only plug in the box for the electric cooler, ice maker, radio, retractable HDMI, multiple USB ports with UConntrol Wireless® and whatever app that can have an always-charged Uconnect-XL Drone® Vertical Lock with a max height limit of three meters. A beacon light floating over your truck for when you lost it at Costco. The Mopar Lot Mapping app will show you the closest empty spot with the turn by turn instructions. The truck must be in Park for the drone to surveil the area in panoramic view mode.
The Hybrid Power Plug® can be used by a low load assist Mopar Box Winch Kit® loaded into a Premium Box E-Utility Group. (Don't drive the toy into the back window.) The regenerative braking returns will be HUGE and could do the job. A sip from the Cummins occasionally.
Does this all need Hybrid tech? No, but it sure would be fun and expensive. Just a power source separate of any batteries designed for the operation of the vehicle but can be one-way charged with no load on the engine. Essentially a possible 3 battery truck. Plus a few more Hybrid © ® ™ terms plastered on everything by marketing or whoever.
If you look at what PSA did for the vans, they started with the battery version and replaced components with hydrogen power. It has more range, more torque and better performance than battery. But they did not have to make major modifications to accomplish this.

(3) Stellantis to sell hydrogen-powered commercial vans this year in Europe | Allpar Forums
 

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If you look at what PSA did for the vans, they started with the battery version and replaced components with hydrogen power. It has more range, more torque and better performance than battery. But they did not have to make major modifications to accomplish this.

(3) Stellantis to sell hydrogen-powered commercial vans this year in Europe | Allpar Forums
It was very clever.

As an aside, M. Packard had some interesting ideas there. I noticed Ford went with the old Dodge idea and had a generator setup built in.
 

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Stellantis has the advantage of multiple brands selling around the world via, often and soon: oftener, multibrand dealerships and mulibrand spares and service and logistics 'backend'.

Accordingly, no brand need be anything close to the respective commoditized 'full line up'.

Accordingly: dodge, now a somewhat decommoditized brand, will by 2025or later still have no more than 3 or 4 nameplates (with many variants), likewise with Alfa (3 or 4 globally plus 1 or 2 eurocentric small fwd models), maserati will have 4 or 5 at most.

Chrysler will have just 1or 2.

Scale economies via psa merger synergies and JEEP volumes(globally not just usa) andor sweating old amortized plants, powertrains, platitectures will ensure at a minimum no significant financial losses.
 

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Stellantis will compete via BRANDing, marketing, the advantage of multibrand dealerships and shared backend, and sheer scale economies. NOT via full lineups of fully commoditized cars full of generic fully commoditized powertrain, IT and wcm etc (old or cutting edge) technology. (Not that fca in particular and even psa is in any way whatsoever lacking in the latter....such matters ARE purely financial in the end.)
 
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