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Is it a good idea to cut passenger cars?

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Has anyone done any math on how much volume GM is taking out? Will this make Toyota the number one in the U.S. market? Could GM slip below Ford?
 

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Has anyone done any math on how much volume GM is taking out? Will this make Toyota the number one in the U.S. market? Could GM slip below Ford?
I'm not Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce but it could be possible then GM might slip below Ford and if GM slip below FCA that would add insult to injury. As for Toyota, their cars sales drop in favor of CUV/SUV as well and now Toyota used more commercial fleet (taxicabs along with rentals for Avis/Hertz/Entreprise/etc...) then before. Imagine once their rental fleets need to be replaced, Toyota might feel incomfortable if a used Camry taxicab/Hertz rental end behind the wheels of Jake and Elwood Blues, lol.

Edit: Add, also the risk of resale value dropping if Toyota goes more inland into fleet market like Nissan did. How long Honda will resist to the song of the sirens of Avis/Hertz?
 

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Has anyone done any math on how much volume GM is taking out? Will this make Toyota the number one in the U.S. market? Could GM slip below Ford?
Under the "leadership" of Barra, GM went from the largest automaker in the world to the fourth. It will loose 300,000 sales a year from the sedans being dropped and there is no guarantee that those buyers will flock to another GM vehicle.

To answer your question, I could see Toyota and Ford easily supplanting GM in this country in terms of sales with FCA definitely in the mix.

GM is operating scared and as a company that is fighting for its survival. Rather than being truly proactive and saturating the market with what it wants- CUVs, SUVs and Trucks, it is running scared and cheapening the product while pursuing a dual plan of potential failure: electric cars that will likely become less desirable as fuel prices continue to fall long term; and AVs that more and more consumers are becoming skeptical of, and whose benefits and timetables analysts are beginning to seriously question.
 

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I can't help but think that this sedan-apocalypse isn't self-inflicted by the brands. Their making sedans lower and "sportier", yet people are shifting their dollars to SUVs that have higher ride height and are less sporty.
Yet, no manufacturer offers a sedan with higher ride height. They double down on sportier sedans.
Exactly my thought.
I've complained about the low head-banging roof line of most all sedans these days only to be told by automotive types it's needed for aerodynamics and fuel economy. Yet their largest sellers are these huge brick shaped SUVs and P/Us. my last 300 was probably the only sedan available that I can get in the rear seat without hitting my head.
 
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I'm not Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce but it could be possible then GM might slip below Ford and if GM slip below FCA that would add insult to injury. As for Toyota, their cars sales drop in favor of CUV/SUV as well and now Toyota used more commercial fleet (taxicabs along with rentals for Avis/Hertz/Entreprise/etc...) then before. Imagine once their rental fleets need to be replaced, Toyota might feel incomfortable if a used Camry taxicab/Hertz rental end behind the wheels of Jake and Elwood Blues, lol.

Edit: Add, also the risk of resale value dropping if Toyota goes more inland into fleet market like Nissan did. How long Honda will resist to the song of the sirens of Avis/Hertz?
But, despite the drop in passenger cars, Toyota has CUVs that sell in volumes others can only dream of.
 
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But, despite the drop in passenger cars, Toyota has CUVs that sell in volumes others can only dream of.
When potential Toyota customers were disgusted with the latest styling of the Prius models, they simply walked across the showroom to a RAV4 model with the same hybrid drivetrain.

I really don't like the styling direction that Toyota has taken for its sedans, and the sales suggest many agree with me. That said, Toyota does seem to have a "don't mess with success" attitude towards their taller vehicles. The Highlander is a prime example, despite the upcoming sport trim.
 

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Under the "leadership" of Barra, GM went from the largest automaker in the world to the fourth. It will loose 300,000 sales a year from the sedans being dropped and there is no guarantee that those buyers will flock to another GM vehicle.

To answer your question, I could see Toyota and Ford easily supplanting GM in this country in terms of sales with FCA definitely in the mix.

GM is operating scared and as a company that is fighting for its survival. Rather than being truly proactive and saturating the market with what it wants- CUVs, SUVs and Trucks, it is running scared and cheapening the product while pursuing a dual plan of potential failure: electric cars that will likely become less desirable as fuel prices continue to fall long term; and AVs that more and more consumers are becoming skeptical of, and whose benefits and timetables analysts are beginning to seriously question.
At GM with that record....GIVE THAT WOMAN A RAISE!!
 

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I saw a post on another forum GM Poletown and Warren Transmission shuttering - Page 6 (at https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?23644-GM-Poletown-and-Warren-Transmission-shuttering&p=560717#post560717 ) who was interesting to quote to talk a bit about the world of "automobile-fiction". ;-)

Instead, they have to worry about facing a hostile takeover or being split ala. Hewlett-Packard.
Hostile takeover.... I guess the Chinese, or another player like Peugeot-Citroen (GM dealer network would be make it easy for PSA to put quickly a dealer network and they now own Opel/Vauxhall) might be tempted to take the plunge. With Carlos Ghosn in jail in Japan, we could count him along with Renault-Nissan out until new order. Then Exor's CEO John Elkann might probably have a hidden ace somewhere.

Or if GM is being split a la Hewlett-Packard. Who might be the plausible candidate who'll inherit Chevrolet while the rest inherit Cadillac, Buick and GMC?
 

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Hostile takeover.... I guess the Chinese, or another player like Peugeot-Citroen (GM dealer network would be make it easy for PSA to put quickly a dealer network and they now own Opel/Vauxhall) might be tempted to take the plunge. With Carlos Ghosn in jail in Japan, we could count him along with Renault-Nissan out until new order. Then Exor's CEO John Elkann might probably have a hidden ace somewhere.
If Mr. Elkann does hold a trump card (forgive the expression;))...then you can bet your last Euro he will be playing it very VERY close to the vest.
 

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But, despite the drop in passenger cars, Toyota has CUVs that sell in volumes others can only dream of.
Not only that, but despite the drop in passenger cars, Toyota has passenger cars that sell in volumes others can only dream of. The Camry, a single nameplate, fell to just over 300,000 sales so far this year. The Corolla is similar but just under 300,000. In short, these “failed” cars are easily outselling Chrysler's “successes.”

They took a big hit in minivans, though. Sienna sold just more than Pacifica but way less than Caravan. Question is always profit margin; I suspect even with lower sales, Toyota's making bigger profits because they don't have to sell as much on “the deal.” Likewise, on the negative side, the Corolla is probably selling well because they're throwing in safety features that would add $5,000 to the price on an SUV or Dodge sedan!

I can see why FCA hasn't been rushing through the new large cars. They're making good profits on the old ones, and heck, even the Journey, which I think we ALL thought would be long dead by now, is selling pretty well. If there are no changes, they should be making profits off those. The Cherokee is selling way better, but requires constant investment to keep it fresh.

Nothing wrong with keeping old stock rolling, as long as they do continuous improvement for quality... if I buy a Journey today, I expect it to have none of the reliability problems of, say, a 2015 Journey (not that they were unreliable, but every car has weak points).
 

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Maybe there are enough people who are tired of change for the sake of change and that is helping older name plates like the Journey and LX cars...

So GM is doubling down on autonomous cars. I am trying to remember if there is a good comparison where a whole industry invested so much into a new technology that then later fizzled. I am not saying it will but at the same time I cannot understand how they all think this will for sure happen in the next few years. Will see how long shareholders will be willing to be patient.
 
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So if we fast forward two years, what 4 door American cars will be left?
Malibu, Charger, 300 (maybe but most likely not), CT5, Tesla 3 and S, Bolt. Is that it? Maybe GM or Ford will add some electric sedans?
 

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So if we fast forward two years, what 4 door American cars will be left?
Malibu, Charger, 300 (maybe but most likely not), CT5, Tesla 3 and S, Bolt. Is that it? Maybe GM or Ford will add some electric sedans?
Of your list, it is my opinion is that only the Charger and 300 are traditional passenger sedans. The current Malibu pales in comparison with its previous generation. The Cadillac CT5 is supposed to be smaller and sportier for the next edition. There is also a rumored 4-door Ford, based off the Mustang.
 

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I expect the 300 and Malibu will be discontinued within 18 months, leaving the Charger and Cadillac CT4 and CT5 as the only domestic brand sedans.
 

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I'm a big believer in the old expression about how there's nothing new under the sun, and the expression that everything old is new again. For years now, people have been lamenting the passing of the sedan...and before that, the coupe...in favor of CUV / SUV's.

But... stop and ask yourself this: How much different in basic shape and style are today's CUV /SUV's from the basic shape and style of 1920's "Touring Cars"? I say Not much.

I say the sedan is still alive (and the station wagon too, for that matter)...but no one dare uses those "fuddy-duddy" old names.;)

Behold this 1923 Dodge Brothers Touring Car:
 

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If the Impala, LaCrosse, were RWD with a small V-8 engine, I think sales of those two cars would be a lot better. I don't know if the XTS and the CTS are RWD cars, but I think people still want a large car with ample room and plenty of power. FWD is good for small cars where space is a critical. If you look at the Malibu and the Impala, they are almost identical in size. I feel that if the two cars were redesigned to use a RWD platform, sales would be a lot better
 

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The XTS was originally to be replaced by the CT6 which is rear drive. GM is pulling the plug on the CT6 as well. The only rear drive Caddy will be the replacement for the CTS, a smaller car called the CT5. That car will probably be the only Cadillac sedan as well.

Cadillac didn't properly respond to the Lexus LS400 and Infiniti in 1990, having lost a lot brand equity the decade before that with digital fuel injection, the diesel V8, variable displacement, and severe downsizing. Big Cadillacs are great cars, even the front drivers are OK, but the brand lost the formula for sedans. Even Lexus has forgotten what a traditional sedan is.
 

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I've never been a fan of the overly angular Art & Science look Cadillac adopted but I think they really missed the boat when they decided they wanted to be a better BMW instead of being a better Cadillac. Caddy shouldn't just try to be the American drivers car, although they can and did produce some incredible drivers. They should be American opulence which the Escalade is in spades. Caddy really blew it when they didn't get a clue from Chryslers success of the 300 and went with more roomy RWD sedans. GM is just a mess. We'll see if they are still considered "too big to fail" the next time the economy tanks.
 
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The XTS was originally to be replaced by the CT6 which is rear drive. GM is pulling the plug on the CT6 as well. The only rear drive Caddy will be the replacement for the CTS, a smaller car called the CT5. That car will probably be the only Cadillac sedan as well.

Cadillac didn't properly respond to the Lexus LS400 and Infiniti in 1990, having lost a lot brand equity the decade before that with digital fuel injection, the diesel V8, variable displacement, and severe downsizing. Big Cadillacs are great cars, even the front drivers are OK, but the brand lost the formula for sedans. Even Lexus has forgotten what a traditional sedan is.
Was at a local auto show and checked out the latest Lexus LS. Was surprised how high tech their dash was and wondering how that was being accepted by their typical audience.
 

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I don't think it's FWD vs. RWD. It's the trend for swoopy, sporty, aerodynamic styling that makes for steeply raked A pillars, droopy rooflines, and short trunk lids that make cars impractical. Occupants have to twist and contort to get in and luggage access in compromised.
I think there was too much attention paid to people who say they want sporty, swoopy sedans without considering how people actually use cars.
For example, the LH cars still had a large trunk with a lid that made it easy to load. The current Ford Taurus has a decent trunk size, but the small trunk lid makes it hard to load bigger objects.
And now we see CUVs falling into the same design trap.
 
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