Allpar Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,709 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

·
Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
36,198 Posts
Before people get TOO pissy, remember this is NOT a new plant. This is just updating an existing plant. Stellantis will no doubt be dumping money into Toluca and the other one, too.

“GM's Spanish-language statement appeared only on GM Mexico's media site. It did not detail which electric models would be built at the plant, but it did say the assembly plant would continue producing the Chevrolet Equinox and Chevrolet Blazer, engines and transmissions. The vehicles currently built at Ramos are shipped globally, including to the United States.”

Also, GM is investing heavily within the US, too. They're redoing an entire plant here, and I suspect over the next couple of years, we'll see billions and billions dumped in. That's the scale the auto industry works on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Based on what is written here, it sounds like the concern is US tax dollars might be used for these updates to the Mexican plant. If these were Mexican tax dollars to update the plant I would see no problem or if we knew for sure that this was general motors own money and no way using US tax dollars with no tricky accounting to cover it up, I would see no problem with this either. The issue is if GM is using US tax dollars in a plant that is not based in the US, that is improper. The taxpayers have a right to expect that if they have to pay for all this that it should be done within the US, not Canada, not Mexico, not China, or anywhere else. And the fact that the tax dollars are borrowed that will eventually have to be paid back either by my generation or one after how are they going to pay it back if they have no jobs to work it off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,920 Posts
Even if they are using tax dollars the cars being built there are designed and engineered here in the states. If that plant wasn't kicking then that's less jobs here to ebgin with
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
The problem is they still closed a number of plants in recent history in the US. To fulfill the whole build it here idea behind this bill, that investment could and should be used to bring back plants that were shuttered. That way we have not just the design and engineering, but the building and assembly. If the Government of Mexico wants the plant to be invested in producing electric vehicles, they can offer to invest like our Government has. As far as I am concerned, GM owes the US tax payers BIG for rescuing them in 08 and 09, and continuing to close plants here and use our tax dollars on this to fund a non US plant is not proper. If this plant is invested in with US tax money and any of their remaining plants in the US is not leading to the non invested plants shutdown, which could happen, would highlight the slap in the face point. If they they are going to use our tax money to outsource, why the heck are we helping them? And how long before the design and engineering is done there? I'm tired of these excuses and tired of one minute hearing complaints about the disappearing middle class, then hearing excuses for the things that adds to this problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,709 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The problem is they still closed a number of plants in recent history in the US. To fulfill the whole build it here idea behind this bill, that investment could and should be used to bring back plants that were shuttered. That way we have not just the design and engineering, but the building and assembly. If the Government of Mexico wants the plant to be invested in producing electric vehicles, they can offer to invest like our Government has. As far as I am concerned, GM owes the US tax payers BIG for rescuing them in 08 and 09, and continuing to close plants here and use our tax dollars on this to fund a non US plant is not proper. If this plant is invested in with US tax money and any of their remaining plants in the US is not leading to the non invested plants shutdown, which could happen, would highlight the slap in the face point. If they they are going to use our tax money to outsource, why the heck are we helping them? And how long before the design and engineering is done there? I'm tired of these excuses and tired of one minute hearing complaints about the disappearing middle class, then hearing excuses for the things that adds to this problem.
Not only using US tax dollars for a plant in Mexico, but the products built there will get additional US tax dollars to help them sell.

If gov't really cared about the domestic worker, incentives for hybrids would only apply to those built by American workers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kevin m. Henry

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,920 Posts
The problem is they still closed a number of plants in recent history in the US. To fulfill the whole build it here idea behind this bill, that investment could and should be used to bring back plants that were shuttered. That way we have not just the design and engineering, but the building and assembly. If the Government of Mexico wants the plant to be invested in producing electric vehicles, they can offer to invest like our Government has. As far as I am concerned, GM owes the US tax payers BIG for rescuing them in 08 and 09, and continuing to close plants here and use our tax dollars on this to fund a non US plant is not proper. If this plant is invested in with US tax money and any of their remaining plants in the US is not leading to the non invested plants shutdown, which could happen, would highlight the slap in the face point. If they they are going to use our tax money to outsource, why the heck are we helping them? And how long before the design and engineering is done there? I'm tired of these excuses and tired of one minute hearing complaints about the disappearing middle class, then hearing excuses for the things that adds to this problem.
Do you mean those same plants that they sold to other people/companies? Once those are sold or transferred to others not sure how that matters when they sold them to others to keep it alive and people working. They're not out sourcing anything, they're making one factory better not in the states while also working on others in the states to get ready for ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Based on what I can find the future of the warren, mi plant once the mask production is no longer required is still up in the air. On top of this there are plenty of empty plants that can either be bought for cheap and upgraded or new ones can be built in locations with cheap land prices.

Saying that there are not outsourcing the jobs is simply not true. When the company is downsizing and the plants chosen for closing are US plants and the models made elsewhere are planned to be sold here.

If GM wants to be a global company, then they shouldn't be expecting the US tax payers to pay for their plant upgrades in countries other than the US and while trying to market "buy USA".

The appeal to having manufacturing locations in countries like Mexico is for lower labor and Government regulations, yet unless the money from this upgrade for the Mexican plant is either from GM themselves or the Mexican Government, this undercuts the US Government's investment. Building things in US costs more, but they are offering to do with providing the funding to make these upgrades as a benefit and reward to keeping things here if not expanding. What this potentially is doing is rewarding GM's continuing path to outsource production.

The problem that can also come from this in rare circumstances is what happened in venezuela. When you own a plant in a country other than yours own, it is possible that the country can take it away from you and with that steal your technology. Though this is more likely to be a problem in China than Mexico.

Plain and simple, US tax dollars should be used in US plants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,511 Posts
Before people get TOO pissy, remember this is NOT a new plant. This is just updating an existing plant. Stellantis will no doubt be dumping money into Toluca and the other one, too.

“GM's Spanish-language statement appeared only on GM Mexico's media site. It did not detail which electric models would be built at the plant, but it did say the assembly plant would continue producing the Chevrolet Equinox and Chevrolet Blazer, engines and transmissions. The vehicles currently built at Ramos are shipped globally, including to the United States.”

Also, GM is investing heavily within the US, too. They're redoing an entire plant here, and I suspect over the next couple of years, we'll see billions and billions dumped in. That's the scale the auto industry works on.
The money dumped in Toluca and Saltillo should be for pickups, EMP1 and EMP2, not BEVs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,511 Posts
Not only using US tax dollars for a plant in Mexico, but the products built there will get additional US tax dollars to help them sell.

If gov't really cared about the domestic worker, incentives for hybrids would only apply to those built by American workers.
It is clear the BEV/PHEV credits are meant to favor the technology, not the domestic worker.
 

·
Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
36,198 Posts
It is clear the BEV/PHEV credits are meant to favor the technology, not the domestic worker.
No, it isn't. Most of the investment in BEVs and PHEVs in the US is... in the US.

This is one investment to update an existing plant. Stop over-reacting.

I might add that the last four presidents have all supported free trade with Mexico (and Canada). This is part of it. I suspect part of the rationale is trying to increase Mexico's wealth to reduce illegal immigration, but I don't know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,511 Posts
No, it isn't. Most of the investment in BEVs and PHEVs in the US is... in the US.

This is one investment to update an existing plant. Stop over-reacting.

I might add that the last four presidents have all supported free trade with Mexico (and Canada). This is part of it. I suspect part of the rationale is trying to increase Mexico's wealth to reduce illegal immigration, but I don't know.
GM and Tesla are the only manufacturers who have used up their tax credits. But the credits apply to all manufacturers with production anywhere. If they wanted to benefit US workers it would only have gone to US made vehicles. So it is clear the BEV/PHEV credits are meant to favor the technology, not the domestic worker. That people bought more US made vehicles is a happy coincidence, not an outcome of the federal credits. It may very well be an outcome of state tax policies and incentives in the case of Tesla.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top