[Fast Eddie]

GM to recognize California emissions standards, allowing state to buy its fleet vehicles

The move to recognize the state's authority to set emissions standards will allow California to consider GM for fleet vehicle purchases.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[AceHanlon]

"The letter, signed by David Strickland, GM's vice president of global regulatory affairs and transportation technology policy, also agreed to improve access to charging infrastructure for customers. That includes pre-paid charging cards, partnerships to build infrastructure and more, the letter said, especially in low-income communities. "

This is just unreal to me. Low income people which would include me can't afford these cars regardless of your pre paid cards nor many new cars to begin with.

 

[valiant67]

People assume electric cars will always cost more than gasoline cars. I’m sure people complained the first cars were so much more expensive than horses too.
I think it’s quite possible after widespread adoption, that the overall cost of electric cars may well be less than for a gasoline car. That may still be some years away.

 

[1999 White C5 Coupe]

People assume electric cars will always cost more than gasoline cars. I’m sure people complained the first cars were so much more expensive than horses too.
I think it’s quite possible after widespread adoption, that the overall cost of electric cars may well be less than for a gasoline car. That may still be some years away.

Electric vehicles will have much fewer parts than an ICE vehicle - and the labor hours to assemble them are also fewer.

Existing manufacturers such as Stellantis / GM / Ford will have to spend money to build new assembly plants, or convert existing ICE plants for BEV assembly.

Manufacturers such as Tesla are ahead of the game as they have been building and designing factories for BEV’s (no obsolete factories or equipment).

I think the vehicle manufacturers are working very hard to condition their customers that BEV’s HAVE to cost more, and are working hard to have the various governments (federal and state) provide tax-payer funded subsidies for people to buy their vehicles.

 

[Dave Z]

Electric vehicles will have much fewer parts than an ICE vehicle - and the labor hours to assemble them are also fewer.

Agreed. Battery costs are coming down fairly rapidly now that volume is higher, too. Finally, development costs should be much lower; I was talking with a retired product planner and he was trying to come up with all the people who won't be needed for engineering now. Think about all the time and money spent optimizing the combustion chamber, between valves, heads, fuel injection and distribution, air paths, spark behavior, and so on. All gone.

The reason electric cars started out so expensive is because people wouldn't buy them until they had insane acceleration times... now instead of coming up from below, they'll trickle down from above.

I don't believe I've ever advocated rebates for electric cars, by the way. Just sayin’ for the record.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Lots of supporting materials and service will be gone, too.
1) No more oil and filter changes.
2) No more coolant, or hoses, clamps, radiators.
3) No more tuneup parts.
4) No more transmission oil and filter changes.
5) No more pollution controls of any kind.
I look forward to those headaches being gone. Lots of savings there, too.

 

[David S]

Lots of supporting materials and service will be gone, too.
1) No more oil and filter changes.
2) No more coolant, or hoses, clamps, radiators.
3) No more tuneup parts.
4) No more transmission oil and filter changes.
5) No more pollution controls of any kind.
I look forward to those headaches being gone. Lots of savings there, too.

Which after 95K miles on my Prius has amounted to 2 oil changes a year. At current prices that's only 1/10 of the savings I need to see to switch on purely economic grounds.

 

[Beentherebefore]

Lots of supporting materials and service will be gone, too.
1) No more oil and filter changes.
2) No more coolant, or hoses, clamps, radiators.
3) No more tuneup parts.
4) No more transmission oil and filter changes.
5) No more pollution controls of any kind.
I look forward to those headaches being gone. Lots of savings there, too.

That would be a big selling point for me as I do mostly short trip driving now since I have retired. Driving less than 10 miles/day (round trip!) is murder on most of those parts. I could probably get by with overnight 12 hour recharging from regular house current If (big if) the charging system doesn't catch fire and burn my house down.

 

[David S]

People assume electric cars will always cost more than gasoline cars. I’m sure people complained the first cars were so much more expensive than horses too.
I think it’s quite possible after widespread adoption, that the overall cost of electric cars may well be less than for a gasoline car. That may still be some years away.

Years as in decades absent massive subsidies.

 

[valiant67]

Years as in decades absent massive subsidies.

Purely your speculation without any references to back it up.
Could be decades, could be five years.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Which after 95K miles on my Prius has amounted to 2 oil changes a year. At current prices that's only 1/10 of the savings I need to see to switch on purely economic grounds.

Perhaps you are overlooking the cost of all that I listed, perhaps did not do the recommended maintenance as scheduled.

 

[sickboy]

Agreed. Battery costs are coming down fairly rapidly now that volume is higher, too. Finally, development costs should be much lower; I was talking with a retired product planner and he was trying to come up with all the people who won't be needed for engineering now. Think about all the time and money spent optimizing the combustion chamber, between valves, heads, fuel injection and distribution, air paths, spark behavior, and so on. All gone.

The reason electric cars started out so expensive is because people wouldn't buy them until they had insane acceleration times... now instead of coming up from below, they'll trickle down from above.

I don't believe I've ever advocated rebates for electric cars, by the way. Just sayin’ for the record.

Reminds me of how many credit hours I spent at a drafting table, honing my skills…

 

[sickboy]

Perhaps you are overlooking the cost of all that I listed, perhaps did not do the recommended maintenance as scheduled.

I do believe the batteries use a coolant system, and I’m sure there will be a maintenance schedule for the batteries and motors as well, but your points are valid. i Would wager a lot of the publicly vocal staunch detractors of electric vehicles are the ones who stand to loose their livelihoods.

 

[sickboy]

from what I read here, some seem to think the switch from ice to electric will happen overnight. the belief that the cost difference will immediately push low income out of the market. How many of those low income customers are buying new? Most people I know buy used. often on the tertiary market. And those that buy new, rarely really buy, but lease.
after the last ice vehicles are manufactured, there will be a decade or two of ice owners.
if given 30 years notice something is going to be obsolete, and you or the industry can’t figure out how to adapt, whose fault is that?
For those that worry their vehicles will no longer be supported, you can still buy new horse drawn carriages and have a wheelwright mend you wheels. as long as there is a market for a product, someone will be there to fulfill it

 

[codypet]

Lots of supporting materials and service will be gone, too.
1) No more oil and filter changes.
2) No more coolant, or hoses, clamps, radiators.
3) No more tuneup parts.
4) No more transmission oil and filter changes.
5) No more pollution controls of any kind.
I look forward to those headaches being gone. Lots of savings there, too.

Me with all that extra time on my hands.

 

[Dave Z]

from what I read here, some seem to think the switch from ice to electric will happen overnight.

Yes, and they're wrong.

 

[AceHanlon]

Yes, and they're wrong.

I'm pretty sure no one here actually thinks this will happen overnight. Its just skepticism and asking questions which there is nothing wrong with that. All their EV initiative will mean nothing if PG&E can't or won't update the grid and replace their failing power lines. Some will say they will have to but that hasn't stopped them in the past from doing nothing to actually help the people they provide power for.

 

[Dave Z]

I'm pretty sure no one here actually thinks this will happen overnight. Its just skepticism and asking questions which there is nothing wrong with that. All their EV initiative will mean nothing if PG&E can't or won't update the grid and replace their failing power lines. Some will say they will have to but that hasn't stopped them in the past from doing nothing to actually help the people they provide power for.

PG&E is pretty bad. Utility deregulation in itself doesn't seem to have been a good idea. It created a whole new class of problems without actually saving much money.

 

[AceHanlon]

PG&E is pretty bad. Utility deregulation in itself doesn't seem to have been a good idea. It created a whole new class of problems without actually saving much money.

Considering they supply 2/3's of the power to California I would say yes they are bad. We talked about this in another thread as well. I just see them getting worse IMO.

 

[GasAxe]

Lots of supporting materials and service will be gone, too.
1) No more oil and filter changes.
2) No more coolant, or hoses, clamps, radiators.
3) No more tuneup parts.
4) No more transmission oil and filter changes.
5) No more pollution controls of any kind.
I look forward to those headaches being gone. Lots of savings there, too.

Fleet managers will really push sales forward as the technology matures further down the model line. I expect my fleet Tradesman will be the first electric vehicle I’ll “own”.