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They definitely will not appreciate a smaller sedan. That's the chief complaint about the Charger.

I don't put any faith in new police vehicle sales numbers. Police agencies have been having quite a little trouble ordering and receiving new vehicles. Bids are let, then canceled. Various model production has been repeatedly suspended or discontinued. Cars are showing up a year late, or more. If all 3 OEM's had been able to offer all of their police products uninterrupted, from 2020 through now, Dodge would easily be way out front, as the improved Durango Pursuit has really taken off.
I said engine compartment, not interior. We’re in agreement that a smaller interior would be an issue. Anyways, this trend with Ford dominating police vehicle sales predates the pandemic. Even with unfettered Durango orders I highly doubt they’d eclipse Ford.
 

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I said engine compartment, not interior. We’re in agreement that a smaller interior would be an issue. Anyways, this trend with Ford dominating police vehicle sales predates the pandemic. Even with unfettered Durango orders I highly doubt they’d eclipse Ford.
Ford is a long term player in fleets. Years ago, so was Chrysler. Now fleet buyers never know whether they're going to be here in the fleet business now, or five years from now. It's a corporate wide image problem. Who wants to buy their fleets from them, unless you're a rental car company? Rentals are usually replaced in a year or two, where as cop cars and such are kept more long term. Ford is just fine selling Explorers to cops or the public. Dodge however, just dabbles in it with Durango or Ram. They seem to have this very twisted mindset that it tarnishes their image somehow. If they don't want to use Durango then use a Grand Cherokee. There doesn't seem to be a lot of direction on the fleet side.
 

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I said engine compartment, not interior. We’re in agreement that a smaller interior would be an issue. Anyways, this trend with Ford dominating police vehicle sales predates the pandemic. Even with unfettered Durango orders I highly doubt they’d eclipse Ford.
There was discussion of interior size. That's pertinent. A smaller engine compartment would necessarily mean a smaller car.

I'm well aware of Ford's lead in police vehicle sales. I'm also well aware of the incredible difficulty Ford had with the roll-out if the new 2020 Exploder, including the Interceptor. During that time, the Charger was already sold out, making the Durango the only Pursuit-rated model available for most of 2020. Many agencies, disgusted with Ford, turned to Dodge for 2021 and 2022. While the Exploder did make it back into the bidding wars, rolling production suspensions keep all 3 pursuit-rated models (Exploder, Charger, Durango, plus there was no Tahoe PPV offered in 2022) about even through this year. In fact, at one point in 2021, the only police models available were the Ram pickup SSV's. The Rams quickly sold out after agencies that needed immediate replacements scarfed them up.

While every car has certain quirks, Ford in particular continues to struggle with a number of mechanical and design issues in the 2020+ Explorer.

So, the whole thing is still a mess, and although it's easy to place an emotional or brand-preference kind of slant on it, it's all speculation, and has no real meaning. Both Ford and Dodge will sell all of the squads they are able to build. I think the new Silverado will also do well, but I haven't seen anything where GM plans to resume Tahoe PPV production.
 

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There was discussion of interior size. That's pertinent. A smaller engine compartment would necessarily mean a smaller car.

I'm well aware of Ford's lead in police vehicle sales. I'm also well aware of the incredible difficulty Ford had with the roll-out if the new 2020 Exploder, including the Interceptor. During that time, the Charger was already sold out, making the Durango the only Pursuit-rated model available for most of 2020. Many agencies, disgusted with Ford, turned to Dodge for 2021 and 2022. While the Exploder did make it back into the bidding wars, rolling production suspensions keep all 3 pursuit-rated models (Exploder, Charger, Durango, plus there was no Tahoe PPV offered in 2022) about even through this year. In fact, at one point in 2021, the only police models available were the Ram pickup SSV's. The Rams quickly sold out after agencies that needed immediate replacements scarfed them up.

While every car has certain quirks, Ford in particular continues to struggle with a number of mechanical and design issues in the 2020+ Explorer.

So, the whole thing is still a mess, and although it's easy to place an emotional or brand-preference kind of slant on it, it's all speculation, and has no real meaning. Both Ford and Dodge will sell all of the squads they are able to build. I think the new Silverado will also do well, but I haven't seen anything where GM plans to resume Tahoe PPV production.
And yet, most police forces seem to have all Fords. You see a few chargers here and there that still use cars, but if it's an SUV I'd bet 90 percent are Explorers and why I don't know. They've had all kind of problems and yet they keep buying them.
 

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Ford is a long term player in fleets. Years ago, so was Chrysler. Now fleet buyers never know whether they're going to be here in the fleet business now, or five years from now. It's a corporate wide image problem. Who wants to buy their fleets from them, unless you're a rental car company? Rentals are usually replaced in a year or two, where as cop cars and such are kept more long term. Ford is just fine selling Explorers to cops or the public. Dodge however, just dabbles in it with Durango or Ram. They seem to have this very twisted mindset that it tarnishes their image somehow. If they don't want to use Durango then use a Grand Cherokee. There doesn't seem to be a lot of direction on the fleet side.
Fleet is in the same position it was placed into back in the late 80's - qualify, then win the bids. There was very little investment made, mostly because the M-body was on build-out, much like the Charger and Durango are today.

That having been said, the Charger is still very much America's police car. It is the (or, at least, a) primary enforcement vehicle for nearly all 50 of the state and provincial highway patrols across North America. Many agencies are also pairing their Charger fleets with new Durangos and/or Rams.

I wouldn't call that dabbling, but since SRT - who did the engineering for the squads - was disbanded, and with the merger and divisional reorganizations, Fleet has not received the corporate support it once had. I expect that to change with the new vehicles over the next few years.
 

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I hate to disagree but it isn't. In the Midwest and mid south explorers are replacing Chargers slowly but surely. And while the Hemi is very capable in a Durango in 5.7 form, Ford's Ecoboost engine seems from tests to perform much better. Now, if they were to equip a Durango or Grand Cherokee with this new 3.0 tt then it might be a real comparison, but I just don't get the feeling they really are all that interested in the cop business. Their thing seems to be, if we sell a few that's okay, but it's not a biggie for us.
 

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A smaller engine compartment would necessarily mean a smaller car.
Why? My 300M was much bigger than my Valiant inside... smaller outside!
 

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And yet, most police forces seem to have all Fords. You see a few chargers here and there that still use cars, but if it's an SUV I'd bet 90 percent are Explorers and why I don't know. They've had all kind of problems and yet they keep buying them.
The only alternative is the GM body on frame family which are, if I'm not mistaken, and I might be, considerably larger. I am pretty sure I recall the Tahoe and such doing very poorly on performance tests.


The Chevy and Explorer did poorly in ergonomics. The Tahoe was the most expensive vehicle in the test and had brake fade and transmission temperature issues. Fuel economy was all of 14 mpg with RWD, 13 with 4x4. Ford hit 18 mpg with the V6 and 16 with the twin turbo V6, about the same as the Dodge V6 and V8 respectively. Ford also had a hybrid good for 20 mpg and 318 hp.

Tahoe had excellent braking after fade was fixed by Chevy engineers. Charger did very well. Durango did very well but Explorer was awfully close to Charger and edged out the Durango.

High speed course - Chevy avg speed 33; Charger 35 (either engine); Ford pickup 33; Durango 33.3 mpg (34 with Hemi); Explorer hit 35 mpg (hybrid, 32.5 only).

Acceleration of the Tahoe was fairly slow with 9-9.4 second 0-60 and 14.5-15.5 quarter miles. Durango V6 was slower, 9.8 sprint, 17.5 quarter. Base Explorer had 8.9 0-60, 17 quarter mile but turbo was much faster.

I ended the story: “ It’s worth noting that the Durango V6 would still have made mincemeat of any of the Crown Victorias or Dodge Diplomats.”
 

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Why? My 300M was much bigger than my Valiant inside... smaller outside!
Hmmm, I took his comment as “a small engine compartment WOULDN’T necessarily mean a smaller car.”
 

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Oh, in that case we'd agree... oops
Especially with BEV’s since the engine bay is now a frunk anyway, so the size of it matters even less (it still matters for the ICE variants of course).
 

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Good on Ford for putting a new product at Flat Rock. They will save money on transportation costs as the Flat Rock car lots are close to the plant. Ford will be able to repair the new Mustangs right at the plant.

Given Ford's history of bad launches. This is a 100% guarantee that the new Mustangs will have problems.
 

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Update: looks like plans changed and it really IS all BEV, and they may do name changes (they retrademarked Cuda). I was wrong there...

I am absolutely certain there WAS a plan for the LB Challenger using gasoline engines for a while.
 

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Update: looks like plans changed and it really IS all BEV, and they may do name changes (they retrademarked Cuda). I was wrong there...

I am absolutely certain there WAS a plan for the LB Challenger using gasoline engines for a while.
They really can't be serious thinking that these new cars will sell in enough volume in electric form only.
 

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They really can't be serious thinking that these new cars will sell in enough volume in electric form only.
Times are changing very quickly. I am guessing gasoline engines will remain in crossovers - sedans and coupes being switched over. Don't be surprised if Cuda is a crossover.
 

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Times are changing very quickly. I am guessing gasoline engines will remain in crossovers - sedans and coupes being switched over. Don't be surprised if Cuda is a crossover.
They are making a huge mistake, IMHO. They're moving too fast for people.
 
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