[Dave Z]

Again - might just be this class of cars that's all BEV. Most cars sold now are crossovers and pickups.

Also, the changeover occurs in 2025, not 2023. They have to plan ahead.

Indications right now are that many, if not most, people would prefer BEVs at the right price and range, assuming that measures to have more chargers are put into effect. I think you'll be surprised at how quickly people change over.

Big sedan and coupe sales are falling, though Dodge is getting a larger share of what's left! There's probably also some fear of being seen as old fashioned.

 

[nitroram33]

Well, crap. I was really hoping for a PHEV Charger/Challenger/300 to replace my Accord Hyrbid in a few years.

 

[Adventurer55]

So what are the cops going to have then?

 

[Zagnut27]

So what are the cops going to have then?

Cool stickers?

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

So what are the cops going to have then?

Well......at least from what I see around here (RI).....Ford SUV's in various sizes appear to be gaining some traction. I still the occasional Charger sedan, but I haven't seen much else.

I can only imagine that perhaps some departments are clinging onto what few Panther Platform Fords they might still have left

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Also, they need to stop saying that the Hornet will be Dodge's first electrified vehicle.

2009 Dodge Durango two-mode hybrid, twin to the Chrysler Aspen Hybrid. Hemi + Electric.

 

[Dave Z]

Also, they need to stop saying that the Hornet will be Dodge's first electrified vehicle.

2009 Dodge Durango two-mode hybrid, twin to the Chrysler Aspen Hybrid. Hemi + Electric.

I didn't catch that

 

[AHBGuru]

I hate to disagree but it isn't. In the Midwest and mid south explorers are replacing Chargers slowly but surely. And while the Hemi is very capable in a Durango in 5.7 form, Ford's Ecoboost engine seems from tests to perform much better. Now, if they were to equip a Durango or Grand Cherokee with this new 3.0 tt then it might be a real comparison, but I just don't get the feeling they really are all that interested in the cop business. Their thing seems to be, if we sell a few that's okay, but it's not a biggie for us.

The Midwest? Ruled by Dodge. Not sure what someone else may consider the "midwest", but if we look at just the Great Lakes, the largest fleets are (obviously) the state patrol agencies. Here in WI, they have been steadily replacing the older exploders with Chargers and Durangos, the limiting factor being delivery times. In talking with troopers, the new Ford is surprisingly far less desirable than the older 2019 and down model. We know about their maintenance issues, but most officers I've talked with indicate that they're very difficult to see out of, they have less interior space, and simply do not perform as well (nearly all agencies in my area use the basic 3.3 V6).
Also using Dodge as their primary enforcement vehicle are the MN, IA, IN, OH, MI, and MO state police agencies.

The myth of the ecoboom continues to perpetuate. As we know, there were very few agencies that actually ordered them prior to 2020, as base their purchase price - even on bid awards - was historically much higher than other squads. That remains true today, especially with almost non-existent bid assistance (huge discounts) from the OEM, and high fuel prices.

That leads us into something I fearlessly predicted here at Allpar a couple or three years ago - that the new V6-AWD Charger would become a fleet mainstay. It now is, as it has the lowest beginning purchase price, and also one of the highest mpg ratings. The only limiting factor is production capability, and just one full model year left. I would not be surprised if they have Brampton build up a lot full of surplus units, tge way Ford did with the P7B, just prior to STAP ending production almost exactly 11 years ago.

 

[Dave Z]

Based on the factory renovation schedules, there may be a lot of 2024s made... though as you say not a full year.

 

[LXbuilder]

I really hoped I would have read it first with better information or does Motor Trend got bad intell?

Hellcat Lives! Dodge Ain’t Giving Up on V-8s Yet

Hot new V-8 powered Challengers and Chargers are coming.

www.motortrend.com

Wow has Motor Trend ever gone downhill posting up ill informed rumours with no fact checking with Dodge at all.
Others are smart enough to fact-check such nonsense.

Next-generation Dodge Charger and Challenger replacements confirmed as EV only, no V-8s (motorauthority.com)

 

[JohnRogers]

I made a mistake I still regret today. Selling my first new car a 2009 SRT Challenger, with the first time offered manual transmission. I should rectify this with the 2023 last gas Skat Pack widebody, manual and sunroof of course.

 

[1s1k]

That excited me as well. Crucial that byound good retro looks a comfortable cabin and usable trunk made the Challenger really stand out. Don't mess that up.

Totally agree. We got rid of a Camaro because of the many compromises. One big reason the CHallenger has been successful for so long has been the fact that it’s a coupe that doesn’t have the compromises of the pony cars.

I can’t think of a coupe that has had essentially the same sheet metal for 7years let alone 14+. Usually anymore than 5 years is certain death for a coupe as buyers are more typically styling conscious.

 

[WXman]

They really can't be serious thinking that these new cars will sell in enough volume in electric form only.

They are making a huge mistake, IMHO. They're moving too fast for people.

I can’t think of a coupe that has had essentially the same sheet metal for 7years let alone 14+. Usually anymore than 5 years is certain death for a coupe as buyers are more typically styling conscious.

Agree 100%. The fact that all these years later Challenger is still at the top of the sales chart in the segment is amazing considering the same sheetmetal and only one major interior change over the run. Just amazing. Now let's ask ourselves this: WHY? Why is Challenger and also the Charger such a hot car?

That classic retro body was perfect from day 1. It really was as close as you could get to the look of the late 60s cars while meeting modern crash standards. The design is a huge contributor to sales. But I think the main thing that pushes these cars is the fact that there are V8s all over the place. 5.7 N/A for the budget folks, 6.4 N/A if you have a little more taste for speed, 6.2 supercharged to stay ahead of the crowd, with multiple power levels and flavors. The Hemi became its own brand and sells cars like hotcakes.

Why on earth you'd take your cash cow out into the pasture and shoot it dead I have no idea. I've seen some stupid business decisions in modern history (mostly on the part of Ford Motor Co) but this takes the cake.

 

[mopar4wd]

That leads us into something I fearlessly predicted here at Allpar a couple or three years ago - that the new V6-AWD Charger would become a fleet mainstay. It now is, as it has the lowest beginning purchase price, and also one of the highest mpg ratings. The only limiting factor is production capability, and just one full model year left. I would not be surprised if they have Brampton build up a lot full of surplus units, tge way Ford did with the P7B, just prior to STAP ending production almost exactly 11 years ago.

Here in the North East 80% of police vehicles are Explorers. I'm guessing most are pre-2019. The fleets here seem to keep them along time. I have seen one Durango and a handful of chargers over the last year. I have actually seen just as many Caprice PPVs as Chargers and they last built those in 2017. Interestingly CT state police still seem to be mostly Taurus cars despite the last one coming out 4 years ago.

Over the last 3 months I have started seeing quite a few of the new body style Tahoe PPV. Saw one last night actually.

 

[68RT]

Agree 100%. The fact that all these years later Challenger is still at the top of the sales chart in the segment is amazing considering the same sheetmetal and only one major interior change over the run. Just amazing. Now let's ask ourselves this: WHY? Why is Challenger and also the Charger such a hot car?

That classic retro body was perfect from day 1. It really was as close as you could get to the look of the late 60s cars while meeting modern crash standards. The design is a huge contributor to sales. But I think the main thing that pushes these cars is the fact that there are V8s all over the place. 5.7 N/A for the budget folks, 6.4 N/A if you have a little more taste for speed, 6.2 supercharged to stay ahead of the crowd, with multiple power levels and flavors. The Hemi became its own brand and sells cars like hotcakes.

Why on earth you'd take your cash cow out into the pasture and shoot it dead I have no idea. I've seen some stupid business decisions in modern history (mostly on the part of Ford Motor Co) but this takes the cake.

You let it retire to the pasture when it no longer is able to do the job. In this case, crash protocol or emission standards or minimum mileage requirements. Many of these issues are not market created but regulated into requirements. Battery powered cars are making them obsolete by regulatory rules and finally batteries are slowly becoming more efficient. One major thing that seems to slowly coming into view is copper wire is showing weak spots with no solution coming in the near term.

 

[mentalicca]

Here in the North East 80% of police vehicles are Explorers. I'm guessing most are pre-2019. The fleets here seem to keep them along time. I have seen one Durango and a handful of chargers over the last year. I have actually seen just as many Caprice PPVs as Chargers and they last built those in 2017. Interestingly CT state police still seem to be mostly Taurus cars despite the last one coming out 4 years ago.

Over the last 3 months I have started seeing quite a few of the new body style Tahoe PPV. Saw one last night actually.

Heck, our local Sheriff department still has at least one Crown Vic in active service. Other than that, it's mostly Charger and Explorer. And apparently there is at least 1 Ram Truck running around in police livery in my township, but I don't know which area that's for (my city or one of the more rural township directly adjacent).

 

[Dave Z]

Part of doing the job in the Challenger's case is beating all those, um, challengers (to the throne) - increasingly electric cars are reaching acceleration which nearly matches the top Hellcat. Also, of course, the main job is making money. Sales are strong right now but anything anyone makes is selling... sales were pretty darned good for the class for the last few years but it's nothing compared with Grand Cherokee. Beating Mustang or Camaro is one thing, selling 100,000 a year is another.

 

[mentalicca]

Part of doing the job in the Challenger's case is beating all those, um, challengers (to the throne) - increasingly electric cars are reaching acceleration which nearly matches the top Hellcat. Also, of course, the main job is making money. Sales are strong right now but anything anyone makes is selling... sales were pretty darned good for the class for the last few years but it's nothing compared with Grand Cherokee. Beating Mustang or Camaro is one thing, selling 100,000 a year is another.

And let's look at the reality of Ford and GM. There are heated arguments over whether those 2 are damaging brand image on Mustang and Corvette respectively with the EV vehicles and plans in place. Mach-E is not a bad vehicle but a LOT of people are not fans of it getting the Mustang moniker. And now there may be a Corvette sedan and SUV/Crossover EV platform in the works.

But internet arguments aside, these vehicles ARE selling. Also why I think Dodge might have a bit of an edge with the enthusiast community, if they can get these things released on time. My guess is the EV setup could be: Charger (4 door), Challenger (2 Door), Magnum (CUV). Best of all worlds really, the "it's named X, so it must be Y class of vehicle" is largely rectified. Sorry to say it to the Charger purists, but the current Charger is now the "definitive" one for a growing population (likely greater than the classic muscle car). No one will cry fowl with a Magnum Crossover since that's basically what it was from 2005-2008. And Challenger is Challenger.

And SRT is very ubiquitous with performance, so that moniker must stay too. Maybe SRT-E (or E-SRT), SRT with a lightning bolt.

People very much want their cake and to eat it too with BEVs. All the fun, and the "economy". Durango if it moves to the Wag/Grand Wag platform can be hybrid for now since it has a niche as "hauls heavy loads, and fast". I'm sure an SRT with the 510 (or higher) Hurricane and a "4xe" (or whatever the dodge name will be) will be plenty fun for most folks.

 

[Dave Z]

Yup. And the hybrids, too. Years ago I drove one of the first Lexus hybrids and I was stunned — it was one of the most civilized cars I’d ever driven, but it could run even with a Corvette automatic in the 0-60 (4.5 seconds which was great for the time), and mileage was ... not terrible. Adding motors means you can run Atkinson cycle and tune your engine mostly for high end power, like the 2.4 (or 426 Hemi to pick polar opposites) without losing low end grunt. Just because Toyota popularized hybrids with the Prius doesn't mean that hybrids are slow.

 

[mentalicca]

Yup. And the hybrids, too. Years ago I drove one of the first Lexus hybrids and I was stunned — it was one of the most civilized cars I’d ever driven, but it could run even with a Corvette automatic in the 0-60 (4.5 seconds which was great for the time), and mileage was ... not terrible. Adding motors means you can run Atkinson cycle and tune your engine mostly for high end power, like the 2.4 (or 426 Hemi to pick polar opposites) without losing low end grunt. Just because Toyota popularized hybrids with the Prius doesn't mean that hybrids are slow.

Beyond that the best of both worlds is a PHEV where the gas engine is just a generator. Obviously not quite the visceral feel of a v8. But the driveline is simplified and you can optimize thermal efficiency to be greater than 50% vs around 20-25% right now. Imagine a performance car like a Hellcat get over double the fuel economy, and no "range anxiety" issues with a BEV.