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Beyond that the best of both worlds is a PHEV where the gas engine is just a generator. Obviously not quite the visceral feel of a v8. But the driveline is simplified and you can optimize thermal efficiency to be greater than 50% vs around 20-25% right now. Imagine a performance car like a Hellcat get over double the fuel economy, and no "range anxiety" issues with a BEV.
That's where a turbine could work ;) if they could deal with the heat and materials costs. Again, like every locomotive.
 

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That's where a turbine could work ;) if they could deal with the heat and materials costs. Again, like every locomotive.
Yep. I was thinking along the lines of more transitionary technology. We have all the tech in automobiles already. I ranted about this before in another thread, but I still think it made better sense for all the auto companies for a myriad of reasons.
 

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... Sorry to say it to the Charger purists, but the current Charger is now the "definitive" one for a growing population (likely greater than the classic muscle car). ...
It's sad to see that some things haven't changed. One side of the argument is still allowed to post their opinion, even label and attack the other, but anything said in response would likely be seen as inflammatory and thus deleted. (as this very comment probably will be...)

I think it's about time they let that nameplate die the death it should of had in 2006 (or the '80s). Let it rest, it's been abused enough.

It's 2022. Can't anyone come up with a reasonably decent name for a new car? (and that includes other brands, Maverick truck...really?...a Bronco with no V8 option, Don't get me started on Ford GT or the newest Corvette...)

I can't honestly say what younger buyers are interested in, most seem uninterested in cars at all these days. The only reason my kids like cars is because of my own passion for them. I just can't see many true car enthusiasts buying into full electric vehicles, especially if they are wearing the nameplate of a car they grew up loving and respecting (and restoring). I think the best way into those wallets is by creating a totally new name/car and not trying to "redefine" things all the time.

I know some people will say "why does anyone care about what some "old car guys" think?" Well, many, not all, but many of those "old car guys" are at a stage in their life where their house is paid off, they have some extra money to spend, and they are retired and want to go out cruising with their spouse (or maybe their grandkids). Giving them more options is better than less. Hybrid, electric, and gas. They're going to either find a car they want from this brand, or from a different one...or just not spend their money (and what fun is that?!)
 

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It's sad to see that some things haven't changed. One side of the argument is still allowed to post their opinion, even label and attack the other, but anything said in response would likely be seen as inflammatory and thus deleted. (as this very comment probably will be...)
I did not attack that opinion nor the people who have said opinion. I took no side. I was merely stating what I have personally witnessed. The mainstream population (and not enthusiasts like us), if you were to ask them to picture a Dodge Charger, the new model is what comes to mind.
 

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Charger constantly changed over time. Fastback, muscle car, personal luxury coupe, economy performance car, 4 door sedan. Morphing to a hybrid, electric, or even a CUV would not be surprising for Charger.
 

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Yup. It's not like the Mustang which has always been either a pony car or muscle car, or Camaro (I still like the Porsche 1974-81 styling), or Challenger... now I'm thinking there was a Mitsu-based Challenger but nobody remembers that, i think.
 

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Yup. It's not like the Mustang which has always been either a pony car or muscle car, or Camaro (I still like the Porsche 1974-81 styling), or Challenger... now I'm thinking there was a Mitsu-based Challenger but nobody remembers that, i think.
And honestly, for the time, Mitsubishi Challenger was about equivalent to Mustang II so somewhat like the original.
 

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Yup. It's not like the Mustang which has always been either a pony car or muscle car, or Camaro (I still like the Porsche 1974-81 styling), or Challenger... now I'm thinking there was a Mitsu-based Challenger but nobody remembers that, i think.
Calling Mustang II a pony or muscle car is a huge stretch. At Mustang car meets, the Mustang II is put back in a back corner. They really hate that they existed.
 

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Calling Mustang II a pony or muscle car is a huge stretch. At Mustang car meets, the Mustang II is put back in a back corner. They really hate that they existed.
I know plenty of people that agree with that. It's like people who like Bronco's(not the new ones) don't talk about Bronco II's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
I did not attack that opinion nor the people who have said opinion. I took no side. I was merely stating what I have personally witnessed. The mainstream population (and not enthusiasts like us), if you were to ask them to picture a Dodge Charger, the new model is what comes to mind.
We have been living in a world where 4 door performance cars have been the norm for almost two decades. Thank the Germans. The current Charger that dates back to what 2004? That car has earn the name Charger. If it has too many doors for you buy the handsome Challenger.

I'd rather see a 70's four door Satellite treated to a performance build at a car show than another played out E-body.
 

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You let it retire to the pasture when it no longer is able to do the job. In this case, crash protocol or emission standards or minimum mileage requirements. Many of these issues are not market created but regulated into requirements. Battery powered cars are making them obsolete by regulatory rules and finally batteries are slowly becoming more efficient. One major thing that seems to slowly coming into view is copper wire is showing weak spots with no solution coming in the near term.
It's a bad look when you do this while your main competitor in the segment just announced they're keeping their V8 around, giving it more power, AND keeping the manual trans with it.

The Hemi's are not only able to do the job, it's the only family of propulsion that can do the job in this particular segment. If Dodge walks away they will quickly find this out.
 

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If copper is becoming scarce, I have a solution. Kill off pennies and nickels, and we'll have more copper ;)

(Not as much more as some may think since pennies have been pretty low copper for a while. Pennies from before 1982 were 95% copper other than wartime coinage. Afterwards they are mainly zinc and 2.5% copper. But we need zinc too. I don't see the point in pennies now, and Canada's already moved on.)
 

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It's a bad look when you do this while your main competitor in the segment just announced they're keeping their V8 around, giving it more power, AND keeping the manual trans with it.

The Hemi's are not only able to do the job, it's the only family of propulsion that can do the job in this particular segment. If Dodge walks away they will quickly find this out.
I can understand killing the 5.7L and only offering the 6.4L. With upgrades the fuel economy would actually improve over the current 5.7L with the cylinder shutdown, and power would easily be in the 525hp range. Trouble is, that really isn't a marked improvement in any respect over the HO TT6 coming. It is simpler without the boost, but I bet the torque curve on the TT is fatter.
 
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The 4xe can whup the 5.7 already, if the Wrangler is any indication. The 1.6T hybrid setup is about the power of the 5.7. TT6 simply clobbers the 5.7 and then gives you 15% better mileage.
 

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Prediction from a guy that will soon be a former builder of all the current "L" cars (from LH to LA) -
I6 turbo replaces 5.7, I6 high output replaces 6.4, and BEV replaces Hellcat and Red Eye. These are not insider info as we are kept in the dark and get our news about our future from the internet, but this is all easily figured out by paying attention to Dodge press releases and what the CEO of Dodge Tim Kuniskis has stated in press talks.
Pure speculation on my behalf says there is likely to be three levels of BEV as there most likely will be a low performance model besides two high performance models. I also believe that if the new vehicles shed enough weight there could be a I4 turbo PHEV. And you can bet on some form of PHEV version of the I6 also.
What there will NOT be is any more V8 Hemi, times are changing and Stellantis IS fully committed to changing with them. The next three years or so promise to be interesting if nothing else, I for one can't wait to see what the future brings, it'll be different for sure but still exciting I'm betting.
 

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Prediction from a guy that will soon be a former builder of all the current "L" cars (from LH to LA) -
I6 turbo replaces 5.7, I6 high output replaces 6.4, and BEV replaces Hellcat and Red Eye. These are not insider info as we are kept in the dark and get our news about our future from the internet, but this is all easily figured out by paying attention to Dodge press releases and what the CEO of Dodge Tim Kuniskis has stated in press talks.
Pure speculation on my behalf says there is likely to be three levels of BEV as there most likely will be a low performance model besides two high performance models. I also believe that if the new vehicles shed enough weight there could be a I4 turbo PHEV. And you can bet on some form of PHEV version of the I6 also.
What there will NOT be is any more V8 Hemi, times are changing and Stellantis IS fully committed to changing with them. The next three years or so promise to be interesting if nothing else, I for one can't wait to see what the future brings, it'll be different for sure but still exciting I'm betting.
It will definitely be interesting. I hope you continue to build something, unless you're going to retire. If so, enjoy. If not good luck on whatever you'll be building.
 

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It will definitely be interesting. I hope you continue to build something, unless you're going to retire. If so, enjoy. If not good luck on whatever you'll be building.
Thank you, I will be retired sometime in the next couple years as the 41 years I've been doing this are starting to take their toll. I hope whatever Brampton builds keeps the younger folks busy for many years to come.
 

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Shhhhh, we don't talk about that ;).
My brother had a TC3 which was one of his favorite cars ever. It went way over 100k without problems and with the manual transmission was fun to drive. His love was terminated when he found a big puddle on the freeway resulting in a close encounter with the Jersey barrier. My daughter had a 2-door Omni and she loved it. It was also terminated by collision when she was rear ended. Neither accident caused injury. They were well engineered to protect the occupant.
 
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