Allpar Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone - new member here. I picked up a 64 Dodge Dart push button a few months back and as winter approaches, my son and I are planning to add a few modifications and repairs as a winter project.
One of the upgrades we would like to install is a set of headers. I just ordered a set of Doug's headers from summit and were delivered last week. Looking down in the engine bay, there doesn't seem to be much room on the driver's side for any type of headers. The car has power steering and the box is huge and takes up a whole lot of space.
My question is, has anyone done this type of upgrade with a similar A body with power steering successfully? I am not sure if I can remove the power steering and install manual or if that would even save space.

Thanks in advance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,706 Posts
My buddy has a 64 dart gt convert. He put a 360 in it, It has a 4 speed which makes the drivers side even titer,
He used Dougs headers, its awlful tight but it does fit. I think he had to rerout some brake lines.
He also has power steering and he kept it in. I think he may have removed it to install the headers then he put it back on.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,683 Posts
Welcome to Allpar. I don't know how much of an improvement the headers will give you, if any.
The log-style OEM exhaust manifolds were engineered and designed to give good performance and ram flow characteristics and were well-thought out.
Starter and steering box proximity means that heat shields might be a good idea.
The 273 4v and dual-point distributor was designed as a high-output engine from the Chrysler engineering lab and test track. I would check it out and clean it up, but leave it original IMHO.
LA - Chrysler small block V8 engines
 

·
Valued Member
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
I don't know how much of an improvement the headers will give you, if any.
The log-style OEM exhaust manifolds were engineered and designed to give good performance and ram flow characteristics and were well-thought out.
Starter and steering box proximity means that heat shields might be a good idea.
The 273 4v and dual-point distributor was designed as a high-output engine from the Chrysler engineering lab and test track. I would check it out and clean it up, but leave it original IMHO.
LA - Chrysler small block V8 engines
I agree.................you could port out the exhaust flanges on the stock manifolds to the gasket line and radius the corners. You would be surprised how much of a difference that made on a flow bench.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,158 Posts
Fast Eddie is right, Porting stock manifolds is always a plus. Mark the exhaust gasket to the exhaust manifold and actually make it .020inch larger than the gasket to prevent reversion. It's small, but it works. On the dump itself, simply open it up on the inside to the exhaust pipe flange itself, you can easily grind out .040 -.060 more volume without an issue. Remember, the exhaust pipes themselves can only breathe as well as the largest cross section, so if the exhaust pipe itself is crimp bent, that's the limit, so mandrel bent exhaust is always best. Measure the dump on the exhaust manifold, stick to that size. If you can open it to 2.25inch, that's the largest exhaust needed, no need to waste money on larger diameter, won't do any good.

One last idea, if header is a must, get ahold of TTi. This is a Mopar only company out of Corona, CA. I met the owners back in 1999 and over the years of testing headers and exhaust systems on Mopars, they have consistently beat every single brand out there, bar none. They aren't exactly cheap, but they are complete quality, worth the money in my book, and always fit properly. Every set they make they first get a volunteer to donate the use of their car so they ge the fit right, then they have an honest pattern that fits every single time. They also don't believe in the design that runs the drag link through the headers, so no road rash! I will stand behind their product since I have bought it, nothing compares with the quality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bearhawke

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,931 Posts
Fast Eddie is right, Porting stock manifolds is always a plus. Mark the exhaust gasket to the exhaust manifold and actually make it .020inch larger than the gasket to prevent reversion. It's small, but it works. On the dump itself, simply open it up on the inside to the exhaust pipe flange itself, you can easily grind out .040 -.060 more volume without an issue. Remember, the exhaust pipes themselves can only breathe as well as the largest cross section, so if the exhaust pipe itself is crimp bent, that's the limit, so mandrel bent exhaust is always best. Measure the dump on the exhaust manifold, stick to that size. If you can open it to 2.25inch, that's the largest exhaust needed, no need to waste money on larger diameter, won't do any good.

One last idea, if header is a must, get ahold of TTi. This is a Mopar only company out of Corona, CA. I met the owners back in 1999 and over the years of testing headers and exhaust systems on Mopars, they have consistently beat every single brand out there, bar none. They aren't exactly cheap, but they are complete quality, worth the money in my book, and always fit properly. Every set they make they first get a volunteer to donate the use of their car so they ge the fit right, then they have an honest pattern that fits every single time. They also don't believe in the design that runs the drag link through the headers, so no road rash! I will stand behind their product since I have bought it, nothing compares with the quality.
I believe the outlets on the 1964-74 273/318LA series motors were 1 7/8's of an inch so; even running 2" even headpipes may still help due to slightly greater cross sectional area, even where bent.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,158 Posts
I believe the outlets on the 1964-74 273/318LA series motors were 1 7/8's of an inch so; even running 2" even headpipes may still help due to slightly greater cross sectional area, even where bent.
Yeah, 2inch is a pretty standard size, it probably is 1 and 7/8ths. That extra 1/8th of an inch can be opened up pretty easily even with a grinding stone or carbide burr cutter, and yes, definitely getting rid of the factory kinks in the tubes will help the breathing. Many a story has shown that sawing the pipes (the old original ones) that the kinks can actually be down to 1.25inch flow diameter, which is definitely a restriction, mandrel bent tubing is always best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,172 Posts
Fast Eddie:

I remember the 273 HI-PO's only came with a single exhaust, possibly using larger pipe and a chrome tip.

Was that packaging only or were they thinking something else??

Early 426 Race Hemi's originally had single exhaust as well !!

Thanks
Randy
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,969 Posts
Packaging. Not much room for an exhaust pipe on the passenger side.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,158 Posts
No, not much room, but the two single pipes of 2 inches in diameter could be increased to 2.5 inches at the connection of the two, which could help a little bit, reduce a little back pressure, essentially two four cylinder engines exhausting into one larger pipe to increase flow a little bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,172 Posts
I found this notation on the 273 Commando, or Hi/Po as we called them, very pretty Engine !!

I remember they had a unique sounding single system with a noticeable tip, says even the Y pipe was larger.

Thanks
Randy


The 1965 273 Commando (Plymouth) engine package consisted of a four barrel Carter carburetor, a slightly hotter 248 degree intake/248 degree exhaust/28 degree overlap solid lifter camshaft, 10.5 to 1 compression domed pistons, a dual point distributor, black crackle valve covers, and a chrome oil cap and air filter housing. The package's special single exhaust system consisted of a bigger Y-pipe, a "straight-through" muffler, and a black resonator with a square tip. (The tip was changed to stainless in 1966, and the straight-through muffler was replaced with a reverse-flow in a effort to quiet down the exhaust note, which was quite loud on the 65's.

 

·
Valued Member
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
Fast Eddie:

I remember the 273 HI-PO's only came with a single exhaust, possibly using larger pipe and a chrome tip.

Was that packaging only or were they thinking something else??

Early 426 Race Hemi's originally had single exhaust as well !!

Thanks
Randy
It was packaging if I remember correctly...................don't understand your comment about the race hemi?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,158 Posts
I also thought the air cleaner was chrome and lettering saying 273 Super Commando, on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,172 Posts
Fast Eddie:
The first 426 Race Hemi's came with single exhaust as well as the 1963 Chevy Z 11 Mystery Engine Impala's and 1963 Pontiac Super Duty Catalina. Maybe other factory race cars, I just remember these 3.

Great info on the 273!! It was a nice package.

Thanks
Randy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,172 Posts
The Plymouth versions had Commando 273 and the Dodge had Charger 273 4 Barrel.

I agree the air cleaner was usually chrome but I remember seeing black ones.

As well, the 1966 LO23 275 H.P. D DART drag car had a different style black air cleaner on its Holley carb.

Pretty sure that one had factory Dougs Headers as well!!

Thanks
Randy


I also thought the air cleaner was chrome and lettering saying 273 Super Commando, on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
There is info about the 'D' Dart on the web. If I remember correctly, it came with a cam halfway between the stock Commando and the race version that Fast Eddie showed. They only made a limited number of them [like 50 to 100 cars], and were available to a select number of people. The cars came down the assy line with stock exhaust, and the tube headers were thrown in the trunk. However, there was a 'kit' that was available over the parts counter and it was legal to run this 'kit' in a regular Commando Dart in D-Stock racing.
 

·
Valued Member
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
I found this notation on the 273 Commando, or Hi/Po as we called them, very pretty Engine !!

I remember they had a unique sounding single system with a noticeable tip, says even the Y pipe was larger.

Thanks
Randy


The 1965 273 Commando (Plymouth) engine package consisted of a four barrel Carter carburetor, a slightly hotter 248 degree intake/248 degree exhaust/28 degree overlap solid lifter camshaft, 10.5 to 1 compression domed pistons, a dual point distributor, black crackle valve covers, and a chrome oil cap and air filter housing. The package's special single exhaust system consisted of a bigger Y-pipe, a "straight-through" muffler, and a black resonator with a square tip. (The tip was changed to stainless in 1966, and the straight-through muffler was replaced with a reverse-flow in a effort to quiet down the exhaust note, which was quite loud on the 65's.

The standard cam was 240-240-16 if I remember correctly.
 

·
Valued Member
Joined
·
2,448 Posts
There is info about the 'D' Dart on the web. If I remember correctly, it came with a cam halfway between the stock Commando and the race version that Fast Eddie showed. They only made a limited number of them [like 50 to 100 cars], and were available to a select number of people. The cars came down the assy line with stock exhaust, and the tube headers were thrown in the trunk. However, there was a 'kit' that was available over the parts counter and it was legal to run this 'kit' in a regular Commando Dart in D-Stock racing.
Dodge PIB No 11 -- April 11  1966002 1966 D-Dart Package.jpg
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top