Heating issues with 91 chrysler
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37,248 Posts
You might try the diagnostic code procedure from here:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes-climate.html
It may give a code that helps diagnose it.
(moved to general tech support for more visibility since this is Mopar related)
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes-climate.html
It may give a code that helps diagnose it.
(moved to general tech support for more visibility since this is Mopar related)
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3,705 Posts
What vehicle? Fifth Avenue, LeBaron, New Yorker, or Imperial?
1991 Chrysler vehicles with the auto temp control system use an aspirator fan located somewhere in the vehicle to pull air past the cabin air temp sensor. If this fan fails, and this is a very common issue, the ATC won't know how hot or cold the interior is. In winter, they'll then blow hot air constantly until somehow the temp sensor notices the interior is way too hot, and then it will try to compensate by blowing cold. But the sensor still doesn't know what's going on... it's still hot, because no air is moving past it. So it keeps blowing cold.
The reason why it no longer blows cold when you set it to 85 degrees is because this forces the system into full hot mode. It overrides the automatic system.
The aspirator fan can be replaced with any such unit from 1988-1993.
These will not throw an ATC code when they fail.
Tip - if this is a Fifth Avenue or similar car, seek out a 1992 control panel for it. This will give you a whole new level of manual control the 1991 panel doesn't allow. You can go into a fully manual mode on them. Comes in quite handy sometimes.
1991 Chrysler vehicles with the auto temp control system use an aspirator fan located somewhere in the vehicle to pull air past the cabin air temp sensor. If this fan fails, and this is a very common issue, the ATC won't know how hot or cold the interior is. In winter, they'll then blow hot air constantly until somehow the temp sensor notices the interior is way too hot, and then it will try to compensate by blowing cold. But the sensor still doesn't know what's going on... it's still hot, because no air is moving past it. So it keeps blowing cold.
The reason why it no longer blows cold when you set it to 85 degrees is because this forces the system into full hot mode. It overrides the automatic system.
The aspirator fan can be replaced with any such unit from 1988-1993.
These will not throw an ATC code when they fail.
Tip - if this is a Fifth Avenue or similar car, seek out a 1992 control panel for it. This will give you a whole new level of manual control the 1991 panel doesn't allow. You can go into a fully manual mode on them. Comes in quite handy sometimes.
Oh, sorry to leave out the details, Kind of hard to troubleshoot without the full info. It's a 91 New Yorker 5th ave is the submodel the call it and it's a FWD. I would try to stick with what I have if I can find a fix to it, before trying to swap with the manual part from a 92. Your advice helps, but I wanna start with what I have and if I can't this one, then consider the other. The fan speeds are putting out good amounts of air, There's no descrease in air pressure. it's just the temperature isn't performing right. Unless it's on 85, which is max, it gives no heat. I'll have to try to search more about the ATC to see what it looks like and if that's what's in my car. Thanks for the advice and anymore you may have.
Ok, then in other words I would be looking for the aspirator fan or what part should I seek to fix the heating issue? Would you maybe know any links with pics of it, so I'm able to hunt the part? I just need a pic to know what it looks like if I come across it. Thanks for your advice!
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I got a picture for you. This is the aspirator, temp sensor, and harness:
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If it works, you should be able to hear this little guy running with the ignition in the run position and nothing else turned on. Might have to get your ear down to the dash to hear it.
The aspirator is located directly behind the instrument cluster. You have to remove the cluster to access it. If your car has the digital dash, it's not too hard to get it out... remove the bezel (five screws up top), and remove the four screws holding the cluster in. Gently pull it out just far enough that you can reach around the left side and unplug the red connector and the gearshift illumination lamp. Pull it out a bit more, then unscrew and remove the gearshift indicator assembly (2 screws). By this point you should be able to remove the whole cluster.
The aspirator will be right behind there. There's a tube leading from it down to the temp sensor grille, where the sensor is located. The sensor snaps in and out... it's wise to clean it while you're in there. Often they'll be clogged with dust.
The picture shows you the whole assembly from my 1991 Fifth parts car - this is exactly what you have in yours. Older vehicles with the ATC system do not have a sun sensor, so you will have to take the main connector apart to swap over an aspirator from those years. It's not too hard to do. There's a blue keeper in the connector that pops out from the back... you can see it in the picture. Once that comes out, just stick a small screwdriver or something in the front, release the pin tabs, and pull the wires and pins right out the back.
My 1992 Imperial is using an aspirator from a low mileage 1988 New Yorker... I had to do the connector thing on it, but it works perfectly. Its old one was intermittent. Sometimes it would work, other times it would play dead.
Caution - don't try to lube the aspirator fan. I found out the hard way that's a bad idea when it started blowing the fuse for the ATC system. Let me tell you, it's no fun when you're driving along and all of a sudden the thing goes full heat, full fan, full defrost.
If it works, you should be able to hear this little guy running with the ignition in the run position and nothing else turned on. Might have to get your ear down to the dash to hear it.
The aspirator is located directly behind the instrument cluster. You have to remove the cluster to access it. If your car has the digital dash, it's not too hard to get it out... remove the bezel (five screws up top), and remove the four screws holding the cluster in. Gently pull it out just far enough that you can reach around the left side and unplug the red connector and the gearshift illumination lamp. Pull it out a bit more, then unscrew and remove the gearshift indicator assembly (2 screws). By this point you should be able to remove the whole cluster.
The aspirator will be right behind there. There's a tube leading from it down to the temp sensor grille, where the sensor is located. The sensor snaps in and out... it's wise to clean it while you're in there. Often they'll be clogged with dust.
The picture shows you the whole assembly from my 1991 Fifth parts car - this is exactly what you have in yours. Older vehicles with the ATC system do not have a sun sensor, so you will have to take the main connector apart to swap over an aspirator from those years. It's not too hard to do. There's a blue keeper in the connector that pops out from the back... you can see it in the picture. Once that comes out, just stick a small screwdriver or something in the front, release the pin tabs, and pull the wires and pins right out the back.
My 1992 Imperial is using an aspirator from a low mileage 1988 New Yorker... I had to do the connector thing on it, but it works perfectly. Its old one was intermittent. Sometimes it would work, other times it would play dead.
Caution - don't try to lube the aspirator fan. I found out the hard way that's a bad idea when it started blowing the fuse for the ATC system. Let me tell you, it's no fun when you're driving along and all of a sudden the thing goes full heat, full fan, full defrost.
Thanks alot for all the advice. That wraps up this issue of the heat. My car is all digital. The cluster and the heat/ac panel. I believe now that you mentioned all that about it, it sounds very much like the aspirator fan. The pic and other details helped me out alot. It's getting harder to find hope of fixing older models like mine. Your advice helped out alot.Can't thank you enough!
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Some extra advice... grab as many of those aspirators as you can find at your yard of choice. Often, the replacements will be dead or noisy. I've only got one working spare, and it's the one in that picture above. Need to keep it for the Imperial, should it ever need that replaced again.
But there are so many cars that use this same aspirator, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding them. Any 1988-1993 Chrysler vehicle with ATC should have a compatible one, though I don't know where some of the LeBarons keep theirs.
But there are so many cars that use this same aspirator, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding them. Any 1988-1993 Chrysler vehicle with ATC should have a compatible one, though I don't know where some of the LeBarons keep theirs.
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You're welcome 
The Imperial and my 1991 Fifth parts car make it four cars I've owned with the ATC system. One thing I really like about the 91 and up system is the blend doors are all actuated with electric motors. Earlier models were vacuum operated, except for the blend door servo. The 91 and up system is a bit more reliable as a result.
The Imperial and my 1991 Fifth parts car make it four cars I've owned with the ATC system. One thing I really like about the 91 and up system is the blend doors are all actuated with electric motors. Earlier models were vacuum operated, except for the blend door servo. The 91 and up system is a bit more reliable as a result.
I like the 91 models too. The thing I like better about 91's or atleast mine, is the all digital interior. I had a 92, it was still a good car,but the 91 I like more overall. My 92 was analog interior in the cluster and air system. Digital adds to the luxury in my opinion. Chrysler made some good vehicles during the late 80's- early 90's. I don't know about you, but I take my 91 for granted,lol .
.I heard if it's digital it has to always be digital or analog must stay analog, unless you tear the whole system down like a home from gas to electric. That's what a shop told me before,is my reason for taking the 91 for granted. They said you can't make it a digital if there's a analog there to start with. Don't ask me why. It's just what the shop told me that I took it to before. I don't know if that's true or not,but I never risked doing it with my 92. I like the digital interior in my 91. I think it may have the sunroof,before but was changed because on the top is the material that looks like a cloth material or something for covering the roof. Usually the ones without it like my 92 was a solid roof. I'm thinking the 91 was change to no sunroof by the previous owners. Overall I like my 91 better. It also has the overhead console which tells the outside temp,miles,info,etc. My 91 has so many more features than my 92 did.I wouldn't mind adding a rear wiper and motor if there was a way, but they said you can't do that either or you can damage your electrical system,unless you know how to re-wire the entire car the dealer stated,so it's compatible for the extra wiper motor in the rear. I like my 91 better than my 92 alot.
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You can convert to all digital...it's a bit time and labor intensive but you can do it. In my experience, if the car already has ATC it's already got the right BCM to support all the fancy gadgets.
The thing I like about the 92 and up models is the new automatic headlamp option. I love that feature in the Imperial. The only time the manual headlamp knob gets used is in the winter, when I'm afraid of having the auto system try to open the headlamp doors when they're iced shut.
Factory load leveling was standard on all years for the Fifth, with full air suspension optional. Same deal for the Imperial.
The thing I like about the 92 and up models is the new automatic headlamp option. I love that feature in the Imperial. The only time the manual headlamp knob gets used is in the winter, when I'm afraid of having the auto system try to open the headlamp doors when they're iced shut.
Factory load leveling was standard on all years for the Fifth, with full air suspension optional. Same deal for the Imperial.
I never noticed the automatic headlamp option in the 92. Do you mean the doors that open when you turn on the headlights, but when they are off it covers the lights where you can't see them? Those are on the 91 too, at least mine they are, if it's what I think it is. When my head lights are off, you can't see them in the front, unless you turn on the lights, then it opens. If that's the headlamp feature then, yep, my 91 has it too and it's neat. Chrysler made such luxury cars back in those years. You mention imperial. I never had an imperial or who knows what I would say. I'm crazy over new yorkers, not afraid to admit, my 91 made me more crazy for new yorkers than my 92 did. I always liked new yorkers since I had my 92 model,which was my first. I might look for a good used imperial once and see just what I think. I like new yorkers and if imperials are as good or have more features I may end up liking imperials next. Chrysler made alot of good vehicles in those years. There's another thing I liked you can't buy new anymore. The auto-levelling rear. That was great for loads and automatically adjusted the ride height. You don't see that anymore. At least when I checked around no one knew of any,nor new vehicles that would have that in them. That was a neat feature chrylsler threw in back in those days. They were like a total masterpiece back in the days with all them different gadgets they made in autos.
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The autolamp system is part of the mirror on the 92-93 cars... it's an option. I've seen a lot of these cars both with and without it.
You had the electrochromic auto dimming mirror, and the one with the auto headlamp control was the next option up from that.
The load leveling is nice when it works. When those shocks get leaky, they become a headache. Fortunately, it's easier to deal with that system than the 4 wheel air system. My Imperial has the rear only system... I was lucky enough to find NOS air shocks for it on eBay when the old ones got leaky. Glad I did - you can't get them new anymore.
The Imperial is the top of the line trim level for the AY body. Same platform as the Fifth Avenue, only a lot of the optional stuff on the Fifth was standard on the Imperial. Though by the time my 1992 model came around, they were starting to cut down the standard feature list. When I bought mine, it was after looking at a 1993 model that had no overhead EVIC (trip computer) or digital dash. I believe it did have ATC and the auto headlamps though. Mine was a bit more loaded, cheaper, and with lower mileage, so I bought it instead.
The problem with the Imperial is there wasn't enough to set it apart from the Fifth. You couldn't get a factory sunroof due to the roof vinyl coming too far forward, but you could on the Fifth. True, the Imperial got such things as cigar lighters in the rear door armrests and an express down feature for the driver's side window, but the Fifth could be loaded up almost as much for thousands cheaper. So, the Imperial wasn't that popular, and is hard to find these days depending where you are as a result. I waited for three years to get mine, and finally ended up importing one from BC. Lots of pictures of it in my signature link.
You had the electrochromic auto dimming mirror, and the one with the auto headlamp control was the next option up from that.
The load leveling is nice when it works. When those shocks get leaky, they become a headache. Fortunately, it's easier to deal with that system than the 4 wheel air system. My Imperial has the rear only system... I was lucky enough to find NOS air shocks for it on eBay when the old ones got leaky. Glad I did - you can't get them new anymore.
The Imperial is the top of the line trim level for the AY body. Same platform as the Fifth Avenue, only a lot of the optional stuff on the Fifth was standard on the Imperial. Though by the time my 1992 model came around, they were starting to cut down the standard feature list. When I bought mine, it was after looking at a 1993 model that had no overhead EVIC (trip computer) or digital dash. I believe it did have ATC and the auto headlamps though. Mine was a bit more loaded, cheaper, and with lower mileage, so I bought it instead.
The problem with the Imperial is there wasn't enough to set it apart from the Fifth. You couldn't get a factory sunroof due to the roof vinyl coming too far forward, but you could on the Fifth. True, the Imperial got such things as cigar lighters in the rear door armrests and an express down feature for the driver's side window, but the Fifth could be loaded up almost as much for thousands cheaper. So, the Imperial wasn't that popular, and is hard to find these days depending where you are as a result. I waited for three years to get mine, and finally ended up importing one from BC. Lots of pictures of it in my signature link.
Yeah I wouldn't know about imperials, never owned one. I just know you make them sound as good as the new yorkers and I take mine for granted. If I found an imperial, who knows what I'd think,lol. Those were good years for chrysler.
It sucks for the shocks you can't buy them new anymore. I got the 91 used nearly 2 years ago and the shock were acting up,so I call around, and came across the "kyb gas adjust" shocks advanced auto sold me. I drove with them on for awhile and they let my rear end sag and bang around all the time, so I checked a local pull a part yard and found the original shocks only thing is of course used is never guaranteed, but these parts are so old, you're lucky if you find them used. The ones I got from the pull a part came with a 30 day warranty for a dollar more, and I stuck them on. They operate like they are supposed to and keep my rear levelled and not banging around, but they are leaky. The compressor kicks on every minute or so for a few seconds, so I'm thinking I may use the material that's for brake hose lining and replace the leaky hoses on the shocks and maybe that will make it air tight and not so leaky.
If you let them constantly leak they'll soon go bad and be useless, so it's good to try and fix the leak if you can. I always thought the hoses could never be pulled from the shocks and replaced. The first set I bought I cut the hoses and the was going all over the place to find connectors which did no help, so I took the shocks back and got a different pair. I found out if you just lay them on the ground or something and take a heavy duty plier, just something with a good grip and pull hard enough, the hoses will pop off, then there are the clamps on the hoses, which if you lose the clamps,the whole thing is history, because it pinches the hoses in place inside the air shocks,so you wanna make sure those little hose clamps or whatever you call them, stay on the hoses or if you replace the hoses and have to pull them off, put a bottle or something to secure it,at the end of the hose, so when the piece flies off , it lands in the bottle and doesn't get lost.
To replace the hose, get brake hose material from the auto store, run those clamps maybe 1/4 inch from the end of the hoses and put them back in the way they came out and you should have have air tight shocks. It's a matter of measuring the hose length of the ones already on the shocks and cutting the brake hose material the exact same length. I haven't tried it yet, but I will be. The auto store says the brake hose material would be strong enough to hold the air pressure, like the hoses on the shocks do, so I'm gonna give it a try sometime. It sounds like it will work. I know the steps to service them will work, it's a matter of finding the strong enough air hose, you wanna be sure to look for.
Those shocks are sacred and if you have them, you wanna maintain them as much as possible or they'll be history and you may not ever come across them again. They are a neat invention that chrysler put an end to. I wish they still made them, because they were worth not having to manually level out the vehicle. That is a headache too. I had the auto store even sell me the manual shocks you have to have a compressor to air up and let the air out yourself when not in use. That's a pain, and no one is gonna wanna do that all the time to go places. It's like every time you add a person or any weight you have to air it, then let it down. They say you can't just leave air in it or it won't be a good ride that way. I've learned if you have the original shocks, hang on to them and maintain them the best you can. I did my shocks 5-6 times trying the get replacements like the original and it was a nightmare the whole thing was. If you have a leaky system try the steps mentioned to restore the thing while it's still working and you may have yourself a set of refurbished shocks, you fixed yourself. I take mine for granted.
It sucks for the shocks you can't buy them new anymore. I got the 91 used nearly 2 years ago and the shock were acting up,so I call around, and came across the "kyb gas adjust" shocks advanced auto sold me. I drove with them on for awhile and they let my rear end sag and bang around all the time, so I checked a local pull a part yard and found the original shocks only thing is of course used is never guaranteed, but these parts are so old, you're lucky if you find them used. The ones I got from the pull a part came with a 30 day warranty for a dollar more, and I stuck them on. They operate like they are supposed to and keep my rear levelled and not banging around, but they are leaky. The compressor kicks on every minute or so for a few seconds, so I'm thinking I may use the material that's for brake hose lining and replace the leaky hoses on the shocks and maybe that will make it air tight and not so leaky.
If you let them constantly leak they'll soon go bad and be useless, so it's good to try and fix the leak if you can. I always thought the hoses could never be pulled from the shocks and replaced. The first set I bought I cut the hoses and the was going all over the place to find connectors which did no help, so I took the shocks back and got a different pair. I found out if you just lay them on the ground or something and take a heavy duty plier, just something with a good grip and pull hard enough, the hoses will pop off, then there are the clamps on the hoses, which if you lose the clamps,the whole thing is history, because it pinches the hoses in place inside the air shocks,so you wanna make sure those little hose clamps or whatever you call them, stay on the hoses or if you replace the hoses and have to pull them off, put a bottle or something to secure it,at the end of the hose, so when the piece flies off , it lands in the bottle and doesn't get lost.
To replace the hose, get brake hose material from the auto store, run those clamps maybe 1/4 inch from the end of the hoses and put them back in the way they came out and you should have have air tight shocks. It's a matter of measuring the hose length of the ones already on the shocks and cutting the brake hose material the exact same length. I haven't tried it yet, but I will be. The auto store says the brake hose material would be strong enough to hold the air pressure, like the hoses on the shocks do, so I'm gonna give it a try sometime. It sounds like it will work. I know the steps to service them will work, it's a matter of finding the strong enough air hose, you wanna be sure to look for.
Those shocks are sacred and if you have them, you wanna maintain them as much as possible or they'll be history and you may not ever come across them again. They are a neat invention that chrysler put an end to. I wish they still made them, because they were worth not having to manually level out the vehicle. That is a headache too. I had the auto store even sell me the manual shocks you have to have a compressor to air up and let the air out yourself when not in use. That's a pain, and no one is gonna wanna do that all the time to go places. It's like every time you add a person or any weight you have to air it, then let it down. They say you can't just leave air in it or it won't be a good ride that way. I've learned if you have the original shocks, hang on to them and maintain them the best you can. I did my shocks 5-6 times trying the get replacements like the original and it was a nightmare the whole thing was. If you have a leaky system try the steps mentioned to restore the thing while it's still working and you may have yourself a set of refurbished shocks, you fixed yourself. I take mine for granted.
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You can use Slime tire sealant in the air bladders of the shocks to plug the leaks in them... that's what I did on the Imperial's old shocks until I found the new ones.
Also, 1988-1992 at the least will all interchange air shocks. You can find them in the Dynasty, New Yorker, Fifth, and Imperial. The Dynasty didn't get the system often, but it was an option on those cars. All others, it was standard.
Not sure about 1993, because the load leveling system changed. Instead of an outboard computer for the system, they moved air shock control into the BCM that year.
Also, 1988-1992 at the least will all interchange air shocks. You can find them in the Dynasty, New Yorker, Fifth, and Imperial. The Dynasty didn't get the system often, but it was an option on those cars. All others, it was standard.
Not sure about 1993, because the load leveling system changed. Instead of an outboard computer for the system, they moved air shock control into the BCM that year.
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