[play2liv]

I have a 97 ply grand voyager. 166k 3.0 V6. New crank sensor, New wires plugs cap rotor. IT has been stalling and has no spark after it dose. you have to cycle the
key a few times to get it to start. It will start up and run again. It will stall during low and medium speed turns and coasting and slowing down. it has P0132 for
high volt on bank 1 O2 sensor. have checked for loose connectors and found none. replaced both o2 sensors. befor this code started. And P0300 random misfire.
I checked the cam sensor( in distributior) with actrons sensor tester at idle I was seeing it flash as the engine ran. Apon cranking it would flash but i would
see misses. When it stalled it would just stop. Still no codes. After 4 days of this it posted a P0340
Faulty Camshaft Position Sensor. Cleared it and drove it again and still same problem and P340 ans P0132 on same trip. Replaced Distributor and still having problem

What should i do Now

 

[John Wood]

I have a 97 ply grand voyager. 166k 3.0 V6. New crank sensor, New wires plugs cap rotor. IT has been stalling and has no spark after it dose. you have to cycle the
key a few times to get it to start. It will start up and run again. It will stall during low and medium speed turns and coasting and slowing down. it has P0132 for
high volt on bank 1 O2 sensor. have checked for loose connectors and found none. replaced both o2 sensors. befor this code started. And P0300 random misfire.
I checked the cam sensor( in distributior) with actrons sensor tester at idle I was seeing it flash as the engine ran. Apon cranking it would flash but i would
see misses. When it stalled it would just stop. Still no codes. After 4 days of this it posted a P0340
Faulty Camshaft Position Sensor. Cleared it and drove it again and still same problem and P340 ans P0132 on same trip. Replaced Distributor and still having problem

What should i do Now

This may be a tough one to figure out, but start by making sure all the ground wires are in good condition, fully connected and clean. You will have a ground that attaches from a bolt on the intake plenum to the firewall, and the main ground where the transmission dip stick tube is clamped to a stud on the driver's side of th engine block.

Make sure the battery terminal posts and clamps are shiney/clean. A problem there could cause an intermittant connection and set false codes.

You also need to make sure that the connectors on your PCM are not corroded. Disconnect the harness plug, spray the pins with a good contact cleaner and carefully insert and remove the plug a few times to help clean the pins and sockets.

As a sidenote, I had similar stalling issue at 2 different times with my 96 3.0. One time I had the speedometer needle flutter, followed by a stall and it ended up being a bad speed sensor. Another time I got the P0300 for months at a time, but I could never feel a random misfire. It always seemed to cause the light to pop on at about 55 to 60 MPH. Finally one day it bucked hard and I thought it was going stall out. When I checked the codes again, it came up as throttle position sensor input out-of-range. A replacement throttle position sensor took care of that.

 

[play2liv]

I did check the grounds and battery all good and clean.

stalling in a parking lot while parking has been a problem since i got it at 97K mi. 2008. Started by replacing the plugs wires cap rotor and fuel pump,air filter, fuel filter. #1 plug was the factory installed one when i did it in 2008. Put in 4 to 5 bottles of the injector cleaner treatments. and the Pass inspection stuff to get it through inspection the first time had high hydro carbon.. all that did not fix it the stalling and Missing have never gone away. Cleaned the IAC, throttle body and intake plenum checked the TPS and it checked out ok. Replaced the injectors this time last year. And the EGR 4 months ago had code for that. Replaced coil 2yr ago. and wires again. About this time the guages started not coming on once in a while but i figured it was just a bad solder in th cluster. fule guage will ding empty when it is full untill about 3/4 tank but not all the time. and the wipers will turn on some times when u open the door. Replace rear axle in 2010 because it cracked where the sway bar attached. Also did the drums, cylndars and shoes too. In march of this year did oil pan gasket only to find it was the crankshaft seal that was leaking.

Can not read vary much live data from PCM with my actron pc9180. looks at 110 PIDs but only displays about 10 data points. the o2 check returns no data.

Is this normal or should i be able to see other sensor data?

Before it started stalling more and the Cam sensor code i was thinking it might be the PCM. Is their any test i can do on it? Im going to pull the plug and clean it now.

 

[KOG]

I didn't see that you had replaced the cam sensor. I've had a similar problem with slight corrosion on the cam sensor plug. I'd replace that sensor and make sure the plug is clean as well.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

If it persists after that, consider a bad ignition switch.

 

[ImperialCrown]

The gauge drop-out probably is a bad cluster solder joint and bad cluster solder joints have caused stalling/no-start problems on these vehicles.
The distributor is the cam sensor on these. Check all wiring harnesses between the distributor and crank sensor to the PCM for rub-through or burn-through on the exhaust manifold cross-pipe. The wiring and connectors have to be OK before faulting any components and moving on with the diagnosis.
Has it ever had a timing belt replacement or cam/crank timing check? Being a tooth off can cause cam/crank timing relationship problems. If the distributor is a slotted adjustment, can your scan tool set fuel injector sync with turning the distributor?
See possible causes here: http://www.obd-codes.com/p0340
I believe that in some older vehicles that if the PCM can't set a P0344, then P0340 will be set with a cracked flexplate (flywheel) instead. Note that a failing crank sensor (which has been replaced) can generate a cam sensor code. Does your scan tool show both cam and crank signal as being 'present' and can you see one of the sensors blink 'lost' at times?

 

[KOG]

Oops, read it as a 3.3 instead of 3.0. Yep, no cam sensor on the 3.0.

 

[play2liv]

this is all the live data that i can see when i start the live data app it will read through 110 PIDs and this is what i get. Dose any one know if i should see anything else?


mil stat off
abslt tps percent 14.1
engine RPM 884
Calc load 5
MAP KPA 38
Coolant 190
ING Advance DE 12.0 -- 19
ST FTRM1 percent 0.0
LT FTRM1 percent -2.2
Speed 0
Fuel sys 1 open or closed
Fuel sys 2 N/A
O2S11v .335
ST FTRM11 percent .7
O2S12v .624

 

[play2liv]

When i did the crank seal i replaced the timing belt too forgot to say that. Dont know what cam/crank timing check is did not see anything about it in hayes book just how to set timing. which i used.


this is the distributor that i put in as far as i can tell it has NO adjustment. My scan tool is Actron cp9180 it is only a reader it can not make changes. Id like to have one of that kind but not yet.
http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=31-45615&make=Plymouth%20Trucks&model=Grand%20Voyager&year=1997&info=3.0+Liters%3a%3a%3a

Ignition Module and Sensor Tester actron CP9087 is what i used to watch the cam and crank it just has a flashing light on it that flashes slow or fast depending on RPM. during watching the cam on cranking (trying to start after stall) I would see that the flashing and it would miss. It would be * * * miss * * * * miss * * * . When it stalled the flashing would just stop at the same time the engine died.

 

[ImperialCrown]

Looks like a normal warm idle to me.
Does the scan tool eventually say: Fuel sys 1: 'closed' loop?
Are the O2S11v and O2S12v values always changing up and down between ~ 0 and 1 volt at warm idle?
O2S11v (upstream) may change twice as fast as O2S12v (downstream).
Have you been able to see what happens to these values at the moment of stall?
Have you been able to watch the cam and crank sensor activity at the moment of stall?
Can you provoke a stall in any way? Like a mild fist 'thump' above the instrument cluster?
The 'ghost' wipe is usually a column multifunction switch, but may be from a poor ground or connection at the dash-to-column or BCM connectors.

 

[play2liv]

yes open/ closed cycle
o2 values are constantly changing
yes there is a freeze data view point for coding but it did not record it battery in tester was dead did not know going on test drive see if it will code p0340 has Not coded again stalled 6-8 times

did watch them cam it stopped flashing on stall and missed flashes on crank after stall

 

[ImperialCrown]

That is hard to tell when engine motion stops at a stall event, the cam/crank sensor will obviously also stop sending data. So which came first?
Retry the view freeze frame (pg.4-18) and data recording (pg.4-29) when the battery is OK, it may or may not share something valuable with us about P0340.

http://www.actronscanners.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Actron-CP9180-user-manual.pdf

 

[play2liv]

I tried banging on the dash with both hands donkey kong style and it did not stall or drop guages.

i just got back was stuck out there would not restart no spark. It stalled just about every time i made a right hand turn NOT ON LEFT TURN. made equal turns in bothe directions. 8 to 10 turns it would stall and would restart without cycling key just shift to neutral and start. untill i was ready to come home. then it would not restart. go figure. checked no spark out of coil. tried to test input to coil. meter only showed max 5v to coil. was having trouble getting meter to stay connected. I was getting signal at cam/dist could not check crank sensor did not have leads with me. I unplugged and plugged back in and got short 1 -2 sec of spark out of coil then nothing. wiggled harness crank sensor is on and it would run again. am going to look for shorts on harness will keep u posted

 

[play2liv]

Pulled plug to crank sensor,plug to something on transmission and one other plug. Do not see any broken or bad wires going to main harness. Got it all back together run better did not stall on a 15min test drive. it almost stalled a few times when i came to an abrupt stop and from a stop started turning wheel then let brake up an let it roll on its own idle. RPM dropped to 499 lights dimmed but it picked up and did not stall I did stop turning in fear it would though.

When i got home i drove it in the driveway in reverse while turning and it stalled. Started rightup and then about 4 right turns at idle while turning it stalled again.

 

[John Wood]

Pulled plug to crank something on steering and one other plug. Do not see any broken or bad wires going to main line going to back to PCM. going to put it all back and let u know What size is the spacer on crankshaft sensor?

Someone here posted that you can buy a bag of 10 spacers at Advance Auto Parts. That might be the easiest if you have a store nearby.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Stalling on turning one way suggests to me that the pickup has fallen off the fuel pump, or is loose, so that it is starved for fuel when the fuel sloshes away from it. There is a check valve in there that normally prevents this.

When you tried to measure and got 5V at the coil, did you measure the positive or negative side? The positive side is always 12V when the ignition is on and the ASD relay is closed, but the negative side switches from 12V to ground. A digital multimeter can't sample that switching fast enough, so you get an average value, which could be 5V.

 

[play2liv]

Ok here is the recorded data from the last two stalls

restart engine restart engine
seconds 39.0 42.3 45.5 48.8 52.0 Stall 55.3 136.4 139.7 142.9 146.2 149.4 stall 152.7
MIL STAT OFF
ABSLT TPS% 14.1 17.6 14.1 14.1 14.1 Stall 14.1 14.1 14.1 14.1 14.1 14.1 stall 14.1
ENG SPEED RPM 698 1129 14 4 2 Stall 913 698 611 31 5 2 stall 5.8
CALC LOAD 4.7 5.0 0.0 0.0 1.9 Stall 5.8 3.5 4.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 stall 5.8
MAP KPA 44 42 102 102 76 Stall 43 41 46 102 102 102 stall 33
COOLANT F 208 206 203 199 197 Stall 195 197 195 195 195 195 stall 195
ING ADVANCE DE 18.5 21.0 6.0 6.0 16.0 Stall 23.0 6.0 9.0 8.0 8.0 8.0 stall 18.0
ST FTRM1% 0.7 -4.9 0.0 2.0 0.0 Stall 0.0 2.3 0.7 0.0 0.0 0.0 stall 0.0
LT FTRM1 % 4.6 -7.7 -2.2 -2.2 -2.2 Stall -4.9 -7.5 -4.9 -2.2 -2.2 -2.2 stall 5.4
VEH SPEED MPH 1 3 0 0 0 Stall 1 2 1 0 0 0 stall 1
FUEL SYS 1 clsd clsd open1 open1 open1 Stall open clsd clsd open open open stall open
O2S11v 0.08 0.845 0.805 0.825 0.920 Stall 0.880 0.845 0.865 0.825 0.825 0.805 stall 0.920
ST FTRM11% 0.8 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 Stall 0.000 -4.900 -3.400 0.000 0.000 0.000 stall 0.000
O2S12v 0.685 0.880 0.900 0.900 0.920 Stall 0.900 0.880 0.880 0.880 0.880 0.275 stall 0.920
ODB2 STAT CA

 

[play2liv]

it had 3/4 tank of gas I don't think it is gas sloshing away. It did it befor and after i changed the fuel filter and fuel pump. The stall speed was recorded by the scan tool was 0 MPH really slow just what it would do at idle. I thought it might be something rubbed by the linkage but the moving parts are not near these wires.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Have you checked the motor mounts?

 

[ImperialCrown]

There is nothing apparent in the data recordings. Did it re-set any fault codes?
Stall at low speed decel and low speed turns, but fine going down the highway would suggest to me that there may be a dirty throttle body/IAC that can't get enough air with a closed throttle. Yet you say that you lose spark and have to cycle the ign switch to get it to start.
Has it always only stalled with your foot off the gas? If this was electrical like a bad harness/connection, I would expect it to stall at speed on a winding road or curve as well as at parking lot speeds.
I would clean the throttle bore and blade where carbon builds up with a throttle body solvent/cleaner, toothbrush and rag. The IAC would have to come off the throttle body for cleaning of the cone-shaped valve tip and its seat on the t/body side. Do this on a warm t/body as the threadlock on the (T-25?) screws can cause screw breakage when cold.
There is also a power steering pump pressure switch mounted on the rack that bumps up idle speed when the p/s pump loads on turns. That should show up on the scan tool sensor screen. It should change state off to on when turning and releasing the steering wheel. With the vehicle in gear, the lowered idle speed could cause a stall. It may throw a P0551 fault code or not if it is intermittent.

The A/C compressor is cycled in the defrost or def/floor mode and if dragging excessively, could also cause a low speed stall if the compressor is getting tight or the system is overcharged. Temporarily removing the belt would test for this.
If we can continue to narrow down what we're dealing with here, we should be able to get closer to an answer.