Allpar Forums banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I found this video and it details the Hemi lifter flaw. Let me know what you guys think.

 

·
KOG
Joined
·
7,096 Posts
If this is the problem then cop cars should have a horrendous failure rate from their constant idling. I can see his points, but I wonder if this makes the hemi very sensitive to various oils. Maybe some oils will overcome the problem. Apparently some hemis run hundreds of thousand of miles.

Just went straight to you tube and looked at the comments on the video there. The problem does seem to be common to cop cars. Lots of comments from dealer techs who've been replacing cams and lifters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panterasr9

·
Registered
Joined
·
905 Posts
Interesting - not clear to me if it applies to 6.1 hemi - seems it happens mainly on MDS cylinders so I may be good - and my 6.1 oil is changed at very low mileage intervals cause I don't drive it much. I found another Utube channel from a 10 yr Mopar tech who talks about idle time and impact to oil change life. Seems to me both could be contributing factors - but wouldn't the oil change indicator algorithm take idle time into account on oil life? or maybe just not accurately - or the fleets ignore it. I had never heard of this issue before this post. One of the comments in that other channel seemingly from a Mopar employee indicates low idle speed on the 5.7 could be contributing as well - where the SRT engines have a higher idle since their fleet impact on emissions is less. I did see some references to 6.4 issues on line...
 

·
Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
36,198 Posts
When the MDS was still new, a lot of police cars had problems, and when the factory investigated, it was nearly always departments using the wrong oil because they knew better than the engineers or it was what they'd always used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Doesnt the Hemi use a higher volume oil pump to push oil up to keep everything lubed up..something that was missed in the video.

Many people are the 2nd 3rd etc owners of failed hemi's,they dont know how it was driven(how hard) and oil change intervals and actual oil used!

Most people take it to quick-e-lube places and they have no idea what oil they actually use,its cheap generic oil and told and sold the proper oil,yes they do that!

I have owned Hemi cars since 2005 and not one failed! Oil changed between 3,000-4,000 miles I usually hwy drive my cars..I dont beat them to death either like many youtubers do,I did run down the track a few times..I do floor it and have fun but no 4 minute brake stands and donuts of racing 100 times a day..I do floor the car everyday for a bit,either from a standstill or 30-legal limit(cough,cough)...I also am heavy on the throttle a lot,basically take off like a 7 second car 0-60 when floored...I drive about 50-70 miles per day in various Hemi cars and not one failed...I have a buddy with a total beater '08 Dodge 1500 Hemi thats beat high miles 240,000miles(not km) plus and he neglects oil changes and adding oil..It still runs,he had the exhaust manifold bolts break..No lifer/cam failures! That truck if maintained probably would be the ones with 1 million miles lol..
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
0 Posts
Uncle Tony knows MOPAR... but, this is nonsense. Cam lobe damage is caused by seized (lifter) roller bearings. I've read that Dodge switched lifters in 2017. Not sure if this is true?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
Its complex, if it were a general flaw like suggested, every one should fail but they doesent.
- i dont think mother really knows either since this has been a problem from day one for the 3g hemi and its never been really sorted out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony K

·
Premium Member
2017 Charger Pursuit AWD
Joined
·
632 Posts
The latest and greatest lifter update occurred in early 2019. New trucks started getting the lifters that January, everything else by that March.

The new parts superseded ALL previous lifters in ALL models, 2005 - 2019. They should be more-or-less available to order from your friendly CDPJE store.

The last I heard, a couple of months ago, Fleet reported zero failures in the field, and zero warranty come-backs. Hopefully that holds true from now on, though there will still undoubtedly be failures on account of incorrect oil viscosity, improper modifications, and/or poor maintenance.

Contrary to popular opinion, the lifter failure issue was not restricted to just MDS-equipped vehicles, nor are these the so-called "Hellcat" lifters.

Parts (cam, lifters, gaskets, head bolts, fluids, etc) should run about $1750. Labor on a 5.7 calls for (depending on application) about 10 hours. In a welcome, if not long overdue, change - standard procedure is now for the oil pan is to be dropped for inspection of the internals, with the results often requiring the need for a new pump and pickup. However, an engine that is found to need further or complete disassembly will usually be replaced with a new service long block assembly (somewhere in the neighborhood of $7500 installed, if out of warranty).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
When the MDS was still new, a lot of police cars had problems, and when the factory investigated, it was nearly always departments using the wrong oil because they knew better than the engineers or it was what they'd always used.
I have had two Hemi's. both 5.7 L. I ave used the AMSOIL brand 100 Percent Synthetic oil in both of them, and have never had issues with noise or lifters.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
37,863 Posts
I always changed my oil at the dealer, it was cheap enough and convenient. Never a problem on mine while I owned them, though I think 170k was the highest mileage I went on one.
The 2007 Magnum had some lifter work done while it was still in police service. I'm guessing it was a big issue for that department because when the 2013/2014 orders came up, they only considered Ford and Chevrolet for the routine patrol cars. The only Chargers they would buy were for freeway patrol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony K

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hemis are great engines and have seen many over 200k , I just thought it was an interesting theory. It makes sense in my opinion. He does say that if you remove the mds lifters it allows for better oiling to the camshaft.
Be curious if we have any engineers on here and what they think of the theory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
When the MDS was still new, a lot of police cars had problems, and when the factory investigated, it was nearly always departments using the wrong oil because they knew better than the engineers or it was what they'd always used.
So it seems they are very sensitive to using the right oil. What oil would you put in a Hemi? 5w20 synthetic?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Interesting - not clear to me if it applies to 6.1 hemi - seems it happens mainly on MDS cylinders so I may be good - and my 6.1 oil is changed at very low mileage intervals cause I don't drive it much. I found another Utube channel from a 10 yr Mopar tech who talks about idle time and impact to oil change life. Seems to me both could be contributing factors - but wouldn't the oil change indicator algorithm take idle time into account on oil life? or maybe just not accurately - or the fleets ignore it. I had never heard of this issue before this post. One of the comments in that other channel seemingly from a Mopar employee indicates low idle speed on the 5.7 could be contributing as well - where the SRT engines have a higher idle since their fleet impact on emissions is less. I did see some references to 6.4 issues on line...
I wondered about that as well, or does this only pertain to the 5.7? I have never heard of premature failures on the 6.1 or 6.4 as far as I know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
At my shop that I run we've done 5 trucks 1 of them was a 6.4 and 1 was a 5.7 in a 2500 so was also a non MDS. I also have a 5.7 challenger to do right now as soon as the parts come in. Sadly this is my wife's car and I'm a die hard Mopar guy but these are giving a fair amount of trouble. In my wife's car it has just over a 100,000 miles. The car had 55,000 miles when we got it, but since then it's always had synthetic oil. When it goes back together I'm going to use Royal purple oil and try that. Of the 6 that I have seen, 3 were driven by women and were all driven very easy. And the 6.4 and the 5.7 2500 were both business guys who did idle them a lot. The last one is unknown because it was just bought and he had no history on the truck. The trucks that seem to be driven hard and worked hard seem to run forever so I think that there is something to this theory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
At my shop that I run we've done 5 trucks 1 of them was a 6.4 and 1 was a 5.7 in a 2500 so was also a non MDS. I also have a 5.7 challenger to do right now as soon as the parts come in. Sadly this is my wife's car and I'm a die hard Mopar guy but these are giving a fair amount of trouble. In my wife's car it has just over a 100,000 miles. The car had 55,000 miles when we got it, but since then it's always had synthetic oil. When it goes back together I'm going to use Royal purple oil and try that. Of the 6 that I have seen, 3 were driven by women and were all driven very easy. And the 6.4 and the 5.7 2500 were both business guys who did idle them a lot. The last one is unknown because it was just bought and he had no history on the truck. The trucks that seem to be driven hard and worked hard seem to run forever so I think that there is something to this theory.
So basically drive the Hemi hard and it runs forever, baby it and idle it all the time seems to be not very good for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony K

·
Virginia Gentleman
Joined
·
15,014 Posts
So it seems they are very sensitive to using the right oil. What oil would you put in a Hemi? 5w20 synthetic?
Yep. 5W-20 is the recommended grade. It doesn't have to be synthetic. Conventional is acceptable. I have a 2006 Dodge Ram 1500 w/5.7L Hemit with over 274K miles and no lifter issues. For most of it's life I used conventional 5W-20. Only recently have I switched to 5W-20 synthetic. Need 5W-20 due to the MDS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,688 Posts
Sounds like the oil pressure being too low at idle could contribute to the issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AHBGuru

·
Premium Member
2017 Charger Pursuit AWD
Joined
·
632 Posts
Yep. 5W-20 is the recommended grade. It doesn't have to be synthetic. Conventional is acceptable. I have a 2006 Dodge Ram 1500 w/5.7L Hemit with over 274K miles and no lifter issues. For most of it's life I used conventional 5W-20. Only recently have I switched to 5W-20 synthetic. Need 5W-20 due to the MDS.
This is false. Chrysler has been recommending full synthetic for all 3G Hemi V8 engines for several years..
 

·
Premium Member
2017 Charger Pursuit AWD
Joined
·
632 Posts
Sounds like the oil pressure being too low at idle could contribute to the issue.
I agree with this. The Eagle 5.7 uses what is essentially a "2-speed" oil pump.

Whether or not the pressure is too low at idle might be rather subjective, and the real problem was the weak roller of the lifters, but I do agree that there's something to this.
 

·
Premium Member
2017 Charger Pursuit AWD
Joined
·
632 Posts
Hemis are great engines and have seen many over 200k , I just thought it was an interesting theory. It makes sense in my opinion. He does say that if you remove the mds lifters it allows for better oiling to the camshaft.
Be curious if we have any engineers on here and what they think of the theory.
That theory is excrement. The vehicles that experienced the most issues were the squads, which idle a lot, and are frequently driven to the limit and beyond. Police service is far more destructive to a street-driven vehicle than any other application.

At idle, MDS is not active. All 16 lifters are getting full lubrication.

MDS isn't the issue.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top