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It really isn't much of a partnership when one side is making 90% of the profits and has been for the close part of the decade. If anyone bothers to try and rebuke this, please include the sum EBITDA profits of each geographic area from 2010-2020. It's not even close.

I don't care where the engineering for Giorgio was done - Auburn Hills should be calling the shots, globally.
When someone comes to you on the volley...

Let's pretend that FCA Italy didn't sell family silverware for huge amount of cash. Ferrari, Magneti Marelli, Teksid Iron... We are talking about billions of euros, it should be double digit in billion.

And that one sweet year. I can't exactly remember. Was it 2014 or 2015? Very nice EBIT from NAFTA. Very nice indeed. But then take a look at warranty costs. All wend deeply into the red. And all with development and decisions taken at Auburn Hills. Don't put the blame on"filthy" Italians. It will backfire. ;)
 

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No longer true as Stellantis.
2010-2020 Jeep/Dodge/Ram vs. the PSA/Opel/Fiat - that brings it down to what, 75% of the profits generated by Jeep/Dodge/Ram? Deeply in the red over the course the last last ten years when factoring in warranty costs? Yeah, right.

Warranty costs were a chunk, but NA profits still dwarf anything the EU produces, and it's even more true today than it was five years ago. DJR keeps churning out profits that increases their lead every year.

Look at pg. 2 - https://www.fcagroup.com/en-US/medi...20/october/FCA_2020_THIRD_QUARTER_RESULTS.pdf

Hilarious.

The businesses that were cited are more or less the European version of Chaebol - nice side businesses. Chrysler had a bunch of those in their 100 year history as well.

The only redeeming aspect of this merger is what - so the EU can share a platform with China for BEV/PHEV (and rebadge it as a Chrysler), twist the screws on suppliers for purchasing due to scale, and sell 40-50K/year mix of Alfas & Maesaratis? Yawn.
 

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High warranty costs due to management choosing to squeeze suppliers and purchase cheap parts rather than focusing on QUALITY.....which is why Fiat and Alfa failed and Dodge/Chrysler continue to struggle.....which is why Renegade, Compass and Cherokee are poor sellers in the largest auto segments in the US...which is why it took years to fix the 9-speed transmissions and EcoDiesel continues to struggle in its third generation.

Fines have eaten up a great deal of FCA profit thanks to falsifying sales figures, violating emissions rules, etc. This company has never been fined this much in its history as in the last 10 years.

Let's not forget the millions in bribes paid to the UAW to ensure workers are paid less than their counterparts at other North American assembly plants.....and the bribes to have the UAW leadership support a merger with GM.

None of these things are because Marchionne/Elkann was "Italian" or "Canadian" or "American".....these things happened the executive leadership was incompetent and corrupt.....and incompetence/corruption is not exclusive to any nationality, race, gender or whatever subsegment you wish to fabricate.
 

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I am pretty sure they fed a lot of disinformation to various people in the hopes of figuring out who the moles were.
Just imagine the financial market reaction to an announcement that after discontinuing the Dart, Dodge would not get an all new vehicle for at least the next 10 years.

It was more than just trying to find moles.....it was about stock price and greed.
 

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But then take a look at warranty costs. All wend deeply into the red. And all with development and decisions taken at Auburn Hills. Don't put the blame on"filthy" Italians. It will backfire. ;)
No, it doesn't work that way. Warranty costs are not debited from FCA Global while revenue comes from FCA US.

You're the only person who brought “filthy Italians” into this. Sergio, for one, was a man of the world.
 

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Let's pretend that FCA Italy didn't sell family silverware for huge amount of cash. Ferrari, Magneti Marelli, Teksid Iron... We are talking about billions of euros, it should be double digit in billion.
You're the one saying that's the money that went into Alfa Romeo, and not the money from North America...

As for Ferrari, didn't EXOR keep the same ownership share?
 

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It really isn't much of a partnership when one side is making 90% of the profits and has been for the close part of the decade. If anyone bothers to try and rebuke this, please include the sum EBITDA profits of each geographic area from 2010-2020. It's not even close.

I don't care where the engineering for the Giorgio platform was done and that WL75/74 are now running on it - Auburn Hills should be calling the shots, globally. That includes what FWD/BEV platform is the future in EU/China.
Sounds like a good plan, if you want the company filing for chapter 11 AGAIN.
 

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You're the one saying that's the money that went into Alfa Romeo, and not the money from North America...

As for Ferrari, didn't EXOR keep the same ownership share?
I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying what's publicly known and what's available for anyone. Some would say that the stating the opposite is internet trolling or at least flame. You don't think so?

Don't forget that Alfa Romeo was pre-merger and pre-2016. Italian part didn't have the access to American cash. It's very easy to verify. So money came from somewhere but that somewhere is not US.

For example this from 2015:
In addition to nearly $1 billion in proceeds from an initial public offering, Ferrari will pay Fiat Chrysler 2.8 billion euros ($3.2 billion), according to a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The payout, called the FCA Note, was 2.5 billion euros in a Sept. 22 document on the transaction and was originally supposed to be 2.25 billion euros.
Read more at:
Ferrari spinoff generates $4 billion windfall for Fiat Chrysler

Yes, FCA had received cash from Ferrari spin off. Also some debts were transferred over to Ferrari.
 

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No, it doesn't work that way. Warranty costs are not debited from FCA Global while revenue comes from FCA US.
From what I remember 2014 was the year when EBIT was at 3.2 billion euros with net profit of 0.6 billion. The reason of such big discrepancy was NAFTA region.
Cost of sales for the year ended December 31, 2014 increased by approximately €800 million due to an increase of warranty expense and also included the effects of recently approved recall campaigns in the NAFTA segment.

You're the only person who brought “filthy Italians” into this. Sergio, for one, was a man of the world.
I'm just saying what some posters are constantly implying.
 

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As for AN’s reporting, it was honest.
Honest in what way? What is honesty?

Just quick search or memory refresh can prove that some of their claims were or are factually wrong. Few months before Giulia's Job1 they've claimed that had failed all of crash tests and that they have issues with NVH. Few months later Giulia is on sale and then Giulia comes to Euro NCAP. Result? At the time best ever score for passive safety i.e. it has the best chassis ever in terms of safety. This consequently leads us to conclusion that AN's reporting was flawed. You can't fix the problems in such short period of time.

I never said Italians stole American money, but the original partnership, if you are to be believed, is crap.
Not, but such speech is tolerated and one may say enocuraged on this forum.

You keep telling us that the American side has not created a single goddamned thing. Am I really supposed to believe that Auburn Hills is filled with American engineers who spend their time wandering around and playing games on their Wii?
I'm not saying it. Their field of expertise were BOF platforms, CUSW development including all cars on it plus new minivan, base GME development, P2P3 PHEV development i.e. Pacifica PHEV. I've forgot something. I believe that they have a lot of work on P2 PHEV RWD development and they did a lot of work on BSG 48V MHEVs. Maybe you would like to see something else on the list.

My reporting was honest.
What is honesty?

Some of your reporting wasn't factual. Like IMO icing on the cake of American engineering efforts. The new GME T6 engines which is AFAIK still on. You said that Italians will spoil American credits for this engine with first use inside of Maserati brand. That's far from truth. This is the engine developed solely for North American FCA brands. So basically you've stirred more (unnecessary) controversy on this site. And you very well known what I've said you at the time.

Or with the launch of P4 PHEV tech, i.e. eAWD. You said it's American effort while actually it's European. The same will be for P2 MHEV and the same was for any Small Wide based development. Vast majority of development for those products came from Italy.

We can delve more into this but it doesn't matter. Narrative is usually the same. Italians stole something from Americans.

[Tough luck] if you want me to change reality.
For example we could show your original post so that all can see it. Why not?
 

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From what I remember 2014 was the year when EBIT was at 3.2 billion euros with net profit of 0.6 billion. The reason of such big discrepancy was NAFTA region.
Cost of sales for the year ended December 31, 2014 increased by approximately €800 million due to an increase of warranty expense and also included the effects of recently approved recall campaigns in the NAFTA segment.
You are deliberately refusing to accept reality.

The warranty expense and recalls would have been charged to NAFTA according to your own constant statements.

If you're lying, let me know.
 
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