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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I've always said that the dealership IS the face of the company and the excuse that "dealers are independent, we have no control" is terrible business practice.
Especially when other dealerships offer superior service....meaning it can be done. FCA just did not care about it. All they cared about was moving metal.
 
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1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
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Got a way to go, good luck. If Tesla can deliver the model "A" for $25K in 2022 like stated on on line I'm gonna get one.
If there is a similar product bu Stel I would like to stick with a Stelpar. From my vantage point as a life long MOPAR owner the last 12 years have just been a continuation of the roller coaster ride. I really don't have another 12 years to wait and see what happens. I really do nor see anything for the little guy.

Hint, figure how to stuff 20% of your income in a good fund and nurture it like a child.
Ha! they promised the Model 3 for $30,000.
 

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1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
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Dealer feedback is still not anonymous, which means dealers can still buy good numbers and punish people who give bad numbers. Until they fix that issue, I won't trust the numbers.

The procedures for getting work approved are increasingly arduous.
 

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#1 issue - they need to start paying the stores to diagnose (warranty work). They're so in love with what the ECM tells them, they overlook the forest for the trees.

What does that mean?
Did you ever take a car in for a warranty problem, only to be told "sorry, no codes, just run it"?
That's pure bullpoop. And how much more do those warranty repairs cost the company, when they could be mitigated with proper diagnosis?

Most people hate going to the dealer. Any dealer. Overpriced, inept service writers, hamstrung techs, not to mention service/parts zone reps who've never turned a wrench.

Fix that hogwash first, Bun E Carlos, then we'll have genuine improvement.
 

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#1 issue - they need to start paying the stores to diagnose (warranty work). They're so in love with what the ECM tells them, they overlook the forest for the trees.

What does that mean?
Did you ever take a car in for a warranty problem, only to be told "sorry, no codes, just run it"?
That's pure bullpoop. And how much more do those warranty repairs cost the company, when they could be mitigated with proper diagnosis?

Most people hate going to the dealer. Any dealer. Overpriced, inept service writers, hamstrung techs, not to mention service/parts zone reps who've never turned a wrench.

Fix that hogwash first, Bun E Carlos, then we'll have genuine improvement.
As someone who has grown up a shade-tree mechanic since the age of about 14, reading ferociously and doing hands-on, and eventually going for formal training and eventually owning my own shop at one point, I can attest to the problems with not only dealer mechanics, but independent shop ones as well.

Step #1: Pull codes. If no codes - NO PROBLEM exists!
Step #2 - Just ell customer it's normal, just drive it, or there can't possibly be a problem - the computer hasn't reported one!

I know that today's vehicles are extremely complex - you need to be a good wrench-turner, computer whiz, PLUS be an electrical engineer, but that is the type of training needed to CORRECTLY diagnose and FIX today's issues. You will NOT succeed with just one or 2 of those skills. Therefore, there needs to be a better partnership with the engineers designing today's (and tomorrow's) cars, manufacturers, dealerships, and independent chains, along with the UTIs, Lincoln Techs, community colleges, and others that offer technical training. A quickie 9-month course may elevate you to just past an expert oil-changer (even THAT task has become overly complex in some cars!).

Techs in training need to be taught how to think outside the ECM, so to speak, and how to go about troubleshooting in the absence of stored codes staring them in the face. How to spot a failing crank position sensor that hasn't completely failed and set a code, yet affects the drivability badly. We also need to re-think adding or mandating any more tech into tomorrow's vehicles until those that are tasked with repairing them can "catch up" on the learning curve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
As someone who has grown up a shade-tree mechanic since the age of about 14, reading ferociously and doing hands-on, and eventually going for formal training and eventually owning my own shop at one point, I can attest to the problems with not only dealer mechanics, but independent shop ones as well.

Step #1: Pull codes. If no codes - NO PROBLEM exists!
Step #2 - Just ell customer it's normal, just drive it, or there can't possibly be a problem - the computer hasn't reported one!

I know that today's vehicles are extremely complex - you need to be a good wrench-turner, computer whiz, PLUS be an electrical engineer, but that is the type of training needed to CORRECTLY diagnose and FIX today's issues. You will NOT succeed with just one or 2 of those skills. Therefore, there needs to be a better partnership with the engineers designing today's (and tomorrow's) cars, manufacturers, dealerships, and independent chains, along with the UTIs, Lincoln Techs, community colleges, and others that offer technical training. A quickie 9-month course may elevate you to just past an expert oil-changer (even THAT task has become overly complex in some cars!).

Techs in training need to be taught how to think outside the ECM, so to speak, and how to go about troubleshooting in the absence of stored codes staring them in the face. How to spot a failing crank position sensor that hasn't completely failed and set a code, yet affects the drivability badly. We also need to re-think adding or mandating any more tech into tomorrow's vehicles until those that are tasked with repairing them can "catch up" on the learning curve.
Just imagine what is going to happen with the complexities of electrification! The diagnosis part is going to get more and more difficult as ICE and Electric systems are connected to each other with multiple software systems talking to each other.

The need for skilled electrical engineering skills will increase dramatically! The stresses on the service departments will increase.
 

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Excluding Mitsubishi perhaps, CJDR have had the worst dealer network in the industry for years. So this is definitely positive news.
 
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#1 issue - they need to start paying the stores to diagnose (warranty work). They're so in love with what the ECM tells them, they overlook the forest for the trees.

What does that mean?
Did you ever take a car in for a warranty problem, only to be told "sorry, no codes, just run it"?
That's pure bullpoop. And how much more do those warranty repairs cost the company, when they could be mitigated with proper diagnosis?

Most people hate going to the dealer. Any dealer. Overpriced, inept service writers, hamstrung techs, not to mention service/parts zone reps who've never turned a wrench.

Fix that hogwash first, Bun E Carlos, then we'll have genuine improvement.
I think in a nutshell this is the whole deal. The poor customer has to depend on the quality of the dealership techs but if the system is stacked against adequate repairs under warrantee they will buy another make next time if they have problems. The best techs will not stay if they get screwed out of money on warrantee repairs. There no way that you should have a system where customer pay jobs are more lucrative than warrantee jobs. That equals less repeat customers. This is the same reason why the best psychiatrists will not work for managed care networks. They've had it with being told how much money they can make.
I can tell you this about Subaru, are their cars perfect, no are they trouble free, no but when a component fails more than is expected, they will extend the warrantee on these parts, they send you a letter to that effect, you bring the car in and gets FIXED NO QUESTIONS ASKED. We have gotten letters on the following components extending warrantee on our '17 Forester:
1) AC condensor (this repair was needed on ours)
2) CVT trans (no problem yet)
3) rear hatch lift struts (no problem yet)
4) electric steering (no problem yet)
5) some component that affects being able to shift out of park (no problem yet)

this is what creates owner loyalty!
 

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2002 Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 with Cummins.
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#1 issue - they need to start paying the stores to diagnose (warranty work). They're so in love with what the ECM tells them, they overlook the forest for the trees.

What does that mean?
Did you ever take a car in for a warranty problem, only to be told "sorry, no codes, just run it"?
That's pure bullpoop. And how much more do those warranty repairs cost the company, when they could be mitigated with proper diagnosis?

Most people hate going to the dealer. Any dealer. Overpriced, inept service writers, hamstrung techs, not to mention service/parts zone reps who've never turned a wrench.

Fix that hogwash first, Bun E Carlos, then we'll have genuine improvement.
Dealers aren't as overpriced as some would make it. Here's my example. About a month ago our 2007 Commander, which we've owned since 2012, the drivers window and some lights etc started to only work intermittently. I thought about taking it to my normal shop, but I knew they did not possess the diagnostic tools to fix the problem without doing a butcher job on the wiring. So I swallowed hard and called our local dealer. Surprisingly, when I called the dealer, they were very accommodating. I thought because of the age they would not be interested in fixing it, but no, they said bring it in. And guess what, they fixed it the first time, and the left rear window, which hadn't worked for many months was fixed as well. Now, it wasn't cheap, but it was the right way to go. No regrets.
 

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Dealers aren't as overpriced as some would make it. Here's my example. About a month ago our 2007 Commander, which we've owned since 2012, the drivers window and some lights etc started to only work intermittently. I thought about taking it to my normal shop, but I knew they did not possess the diagnostic tools to fix the problem without doing a butcher job on the wiring. So I swallowed hard and called our local dealer. Surprisingly, when I called the dealer, they were very accommodating. I thought because of the age they would not be interested in fixing it, but no, they said bring it in. And guess what, they fixed it the first time, and the left rear window, which hadn't worked for many months was fixed as well. Now, it wasn't cheap, but it was the right way to go. No regrets.
That is surprising. Mine told me they don't do much work on stuff older than 10 years unless it's under a service contract or the lifetime powertrain warranty, like my Challenger.
 
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That is surprising. Mine told me they don't do much work on stuff older than 10 years unless it's under a service contract or the lifetime powertrain warranty, like my Challenger.
My dealer faithfully did work on my Liberty until it was about 16 or 17 years old. I guess they loved me after all…well, my Liberty anyway. :LOL:
 

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My dealer faithfully did work on my Liberty until it was about 16 or 17 years old. I guess they loved me after all…well, my Liberty anyway. :LOL:
I think mine does plenty of business they don't need to do older stuff. Our service rep told me Sunday at church that they're hurting for service writers, to boot. My Jeep gets its work done at an indy within walking distance of my house. I've even dropped it there and Ubered to the airport going to Germany a couple of times.
 
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As a parts "advisor" who started out as a CAP trained tech, I resent that statement 😂 😂 😂 😂
I am glad that you don't "resemble" that advisor. For the most part, my advisors have been respectful and courteous and seldom incorrectly diagnosing my issue. Only time I had an advisor call BS on me is when my 68 Charger R/T came up with a miss and a vibration. I called and said that the #1 cylinder had no compression and piston was not going up and down. He asked me what I was doing when happened and I truthfully said 30 in 3rd gear. His laugh was audible over the phone. They towed it in and 3 days later I had it back with a new rod in the same block. He apologized as the rod had broken off at the crank webbing and had just laid over to the side with no internal damage. Obviously it was at low revs when it failed. (No discussion about past RPM came up.)
 

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As a parts "advisor" who started out as a CAP trained tech, I resent that statement 😂 😂 😂 😂

Just to clarify, my friend, I had an issue with an LD squad I owned. I can't get too specific, but they wanted to send a zone rep to take a look. I received word, and I won't say how, that this rep had no mechanical experience, nor any fleet knowledge; he actually came from a marketing background. Well, that clown was supposed to take a look at the car and determine what would be done. The dealer, to its credit, was willing to do whatever had to be done, so I figured out who to put a call into, and they got someone else out there who knew something.
The question is, how many customers would know to ask the qualifications of any of these higher-ups? Likely very few.

One thing I should point out is that the Fleet division has the best of the best. They took care of me, a civilian with one fleet vehicle used as my personal daily vehicle, the same as some agency with 500 cars. I could call up or email with a question or concern (if the dealer didn't know), and I'd have an answer, or they'd point me the right direction, usually the same day.

A lot of it does come down to variability with the dealers. We have a new store nearby, and it started out great. Then they transferred a few people around between a few of their other existing stores, and they brought in a service manager who was about 13 cookies short of a dozen, and it all went to heck.
There's another store nearby that's far worse - I wouldn't let them work on my bicycle tire, and the fact that the city, county, and state police agencies have ceased using that store as a vendor is not a good sign. Yet they still have a CPDJE franchise. That has to be addressed. The company should be measuring these stores against internal expectations, and those that fail to consistently meet them should be subject to the loss or suspension of their Chrysler franchise.
 

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Especially when other dealerships offer superior service....meaning it can be done. FCA just did not care about it. All they cared about was moving metal.
I guess the dealer in my small town must be the exception to the status quo ! Anytime I walk in the door they're very polite and get what I need done usually the next day, Customer service starts with people who honestly care about helping others, whether you're a salesperson,technician,parts counter or even the receptionist if one of those in your team doesn't love their job, then maybe that is where the problem lies. Granted there are some crooked dealerships and their upper management only care about padding their wallets and purses and don't give care about their clientele and that will come in decreased sales and profit margins. I worked at a dealership for 15 years and the owner knew if you took care of the customers they will keep coming back time after time, he made it a point that even his salesperson were given incentives and bonuses on customer service surveys taken at the time of sale and then 30-90 days after the sale, treat your employees like gold and they will dig you a gold mine if you treat them like dirt all your gonna get is fools gold. I haven't sold a car in 10 years but I am still friends with everyone of my previous customers to this day.
 
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