Looks like an appearance package for mall crawling. No way the Santa Fe can deal with the stress to linkages when the vehicle is on less than 4 wheels. To me that wouldn't qualify as a 'Formidable' offroader.

 

Agreed. No different than the X pkg they are offering on the Telluride.

 

Ninety-percent of off-road buyers are only after the rugged look anyway.

 

What some here still don’t seem to get is that the soft roaders that Jeep offers, are mostly appearance packages, very little substance. So if other companies offer those types of vehicles too, where is the incentive to go over to Jeep and pay the high premiums?

 

Personally I am over the off-road look, so I went the other way: brought my Sahara back to stock appearance. It still has a Mopar lift, 35s and 4.88 gears, but remounted the OE wheels, narrower tires that fit within the fenders, got rid of the tail light guards, hood stickers and all the unnecessary flash.

Nothing like a stock-looking Jeep.

 

Personally I am over the off-road look, so I went the other way: brought my Sahara back to stock appearance. It still has a Mopar lift, 35s and 4.88 gears, but remounted the OE wheels, narrower tires that fit within the fenders, got rid of the tail light guards, hood stickers and all the unnecessary flash.

Nothing like a stock-looking Jeep.
View attachment 97456

I find the body colored door frames on Wranglers to look so much more upscale compared to all the vehicles that stick black covers over doors and pillars they were too cheap to provide with a finished surface. I have yet to see any of those covers, on any vehicle, look good after a few years. The body colored top on the Sahara takes it to another level.

 

This is a Fiat tactic previously used on their “Adventure” package that was nothing more than an appearance package to make incapable vehicles look more rugged.

But the excuse makers will continue until the next crisis, then blame something other than incompetent brand management.

 

They also did that on Chargers and Challengers. Except Hellcats. Jeep doesn't even offer a Hellcat type thinking on an off road package for things other then Wranglers. I don't mean an engine, but the thinking behind what made the Hellcat. Stand out from the crowd thinking

 

Everyone seems to be chasing that 'Land Rover look' that totally has worked for them, since they sell so many.
Oh wait.
That thing looks like it's ready to run over curbs like the ol' Mustang did with those memes, I'll give it that.

 

For most, it just has to look like it can do more, it’ll never get tested. Most Wranglers never leave the pavement, so it’s even less likely this would. People who do go off road will know the difference, and those that don’t, won’t care.

 

Lamborghini and Porsche recently made off road versions of super cars.

 

Jeep just needs to focus on what it makes. The poser brands can come in and out of the fad, but Jeep will always be there if it remains true to it's heritage.

My wish list. Keep Wrangler and Gladiator. Hopefully Recon fits that mold. Bring back a Cherokee sized vehicle with some decent capability. Give GC and Wagoneer really solid Trailhawk versions. Revitalize Compass.

 

I'm guessing Wrangler's slide also has some to do with the proliferation of products in this space, including Gladiator. I personally know people that bought Gladiators over Wranglers. The space is much more crowded than it was just a few years ago.

 

I think the rising price of Wrangler is the main reason we see Bronco, Scout, etc.

If Wrangler was selling at 250,000 a year or whatever and the price was reasonable for those volumes, the cost of developing a competitor wouldn't be worth the risk. Wrangler would have those sales locked up and Jeep could just drop the price and erase everyone else's profit. Reasonable profit margins + high volume was Jeep's moat.

That moat's long gone.

 

I think the rising price of Wrangler is the main reason we see Bronco, Scout, etc.

If Wrangler was selling at 250,000 a year or whatever and the price was reasonable for those volumes, the cost of developing a competitor wouldn't be worth the risk. Wrangler would have those sales locked up and Jeep could just drop the price and erase everyone else's profit. Reasonable profit margins + high volume was Jeep's moat.

That moat's long gone.

Yup. Greed got in Jeep’s way.

You can add upcoming 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser, Lexus GX Off-Road and Rivian to that list.

One has to wonder what Marchionne’s original intent was. FCA built an all-new plant for JL with 50% greater capacity, and refurbished the old Toledo plant to produce 200,000 JTs. This year Jeep is projected to move only 50% of combined JL + JT available capacity.

Gladiator now has the added infamy of being outsold by Honda Ridgeline. Oops!

Apparently, Jeep executives skipped class the day the instructor explained how price and volume move in opposite direction.

For its part, VW had been wanting to break into the profitable N.A. pickup market for a long time, but couldn't find its opening. Electrification finally gave VAG the opening it wanted. Buying the rights to Scout was a brilliant move.

 

Wranglers success opened the door for people to want to jump into the off road game to try to capitalize on the interest in those vehicles. Wrangler prices and sales stumble just made it easier to go through the door. Bronco was already at least in plans by 2016-2017 IIRC, if not likely earlier, so it was probably coming no matter what happened to JLs sales struggle. Now blood is in the water and everyone wants in. The hope is that competition breeds excellence. Jeep will not fade into the sunset. Maybe this will be the best thing for the long term.

 

Bronco’s plan was on-and-off since 2005. Obviously, Ford struggled making the internal case for it. With its absurd prices, Jeep made the business case for Bronco easier.

Per competition breeding excellence: sure, as long as Jeep’s efforts are directed in the right direction. Unfortunately, adding a larger touch screen and a power seat misses the point altogether, and plays directly into Ford’s hands.

 

Wrangler is now following Bronco instead of setting the standard that Bronco needs to aspire to.

 

I get that what we all want is an upgraded and refined SFA that retains Wrangler heritage and blows away the competition. Should they be doing that? Absolutely. Should they have done that already? Absolutely. I think it's a little over the top to not call their powertrain improvements helpful for off-road or that they're not real. It wasn't that long ago that all Wranglers came with the "mini van engine". Then, while the Pentastar was a welcome upgrade, it still wasn't overly powerful. Now we have multiple choices, including two (4xe and 392) that are torque monsters, which is all everyone begged for, for years (leaving the diesel out of this... ).

 

Pentastar + 8-speed would have been fine had Wrangler not grown into such a massive vehicle.

A smaller convertible off-roader is a "white space" that will be filled by someone.....if not by Jeep.

In fact, I am confident Jeep will not fill such a space because it would cut into the high-margin Wrangler sales they love to brag about.

 

Just saw the rear of the 2024 Santa Fe. It is dramatic looking to say the least.

Reminds me of late 1970s GM station wagons