[Powdered Toast Man]

Stellantis has it's work cut out for it.

American's were burnt by the last merger of equals.

Money will have to be invested on product and plants.

Money has been invested. In Jeep and Ram product and plants.

 

[T_690]

They pretty much had to do it that way if they wanted Exor, Peugeot, France and Dongfeng to get double voting rights after 3 years, since PSA is a French company and the merged company had to be Dutch to make that happen. "FCA is a public limited liability company (naamloze vennootschap), incorporated under the laws of the Netherlands, with corporate seat in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, and address at 25 St. James’s Street, SW1A 1HA, London, United Kingdom, registered with the Dutch trade register under number: 60372958." It's a legal technicality, it doesn't mean it isn't a merger of equals, then again it doesn't mean it is.

Exor has deal with Peugeot family, not with French state or Dongfeng. They will rule together and Peugeot family can not leapfrog Exor in terms of Stellantis stake.

Dongfeg has pledged to go bellow 5% of shares. With it Peugeot family will get another seat on the Board. This seat currently belong to French state or better said their company BPI.

 

[T_690]

I personally hope he's more like Bob Lutz then Sergio.

I don't see what was wrong with Sergio. Biography is avalaible:

Sergio Marchionne: 9788820067151: Amazon.com: Books

Sergio Marchionne on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Sergio Marchionne

www.amazon.com

 

[T_690]

They don't need money for platform development that has already been done. Most of the federalization has even been done. It looks like they are going to have to modify them for Fiat engines and whatever transmission is chosen. Although in the short term they could probably get away with merely retuning the 408, 508 L and DS9 with the Prince engine (likewise 4008, 5008 and DS7 crossovers). They just have to change the exterior parts in front of the front fenders and behind the rear fenders. They can hit 60% of the US market with those two platforms.

Yeah, excellent. Offer non space efficient FWD based products with no mechanical AWD solution with small engine which tends to blow. Did I said it's a brilliant idea?

 

[T_690]

More importantly......Does John Elkann speak Continental* Portuguese ?

* SORRY...BRAZILIAN OR AZOREAN PORTUGUESE DON'T QUITE COUNT!

LOL

AFAIK John is fluent in all Stellantis languages. Brazilian Portuguese, American English, Italian and French. Can the same be said for mister Tavaresh?

 

[MPE426HEMI]

FCA is not absorbing PSA. It's the other way around. And it is not any sort of "Merger of Equals". One can only hope PSA have better heads than Daimler did.

 

[Adventurer55]

I don't see what was wrong with Sergio. Biography is avalaible:

Sergio Marchionne: 9788820067151: Amazon.com: Books

Sergio Marchionne on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Sergio Marchionne

www.amazon.com

I am not a Sergio hater. With that said, he was virtually like Iacocca. After he saved the company, both of them seemed to grow tired of the day to day things of running the company. Lee bought Jeep, very smart. But by 1990 because of old K car based vehicles they were in trouble again. This time, they have managed to continue to make money despite themselves. They need good leadership here in NA, I believe it's missing today. Just my opinion.

 

[T_690]

I was looking at the CEO, but the chair of the board may have more power - for one, he can theoretically fire the CEO.

John Elkann is Executive Chairman. So yes, that changes a bit.

This is partially new for Tavares. At French companies like Renault Group and Peugeot SA they tend to have single figure which is both Chairman and CEO.

 

[T_690]

They need good leadership here in NA, I believe it's missing today. Just my opinion.

Actually that's the only thing which is for sure good with FCA from Day 1. Nothing wrong there. It can only get worse.

 

[T_690]

FCA is not absorbing PSA. It's the other way around.

Just not true.

 

[MPE426HEMI]

I am not a Sergio hater. With that said, he was virtually like Iacocca. After he saved the company, both of them seemed to grow tired of the day to day things of running the company. Lee bought Jeep, very smart. But by 1990 because of old K car based vehicles they were in trouble again. This time, they have managed to continue to make money despite themselves. They need good leadership here in NA, I believe it's missing today. Just my opinion.

Not even close! SM was given a company and only with the intentions of getting some love in NA for Fiat/Alfa. Not to mention the BS with Dart.
SM may have been a good bean counter, but that's all he was and didn't have an iota about cars. Especially about what sold or consumers wanted.

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

Not even close! SM was given a company and only with the intentions of getting some love in NA for Fiat/Alfa. Not to mention the BS with Dart.
SM may have been a good bean counter, but that's all he was and didn't have an iota about cars. Especially about what sold or consumers wanted.

Let me remind you that the ENTIRE automotive industry at the time had the opportunity to partner with Chrysler LLC...and NOBODY would even touch Chrysler LLC...with the exception of Fiat S.p.A.

As for Dart...a lot of that can be laid directly at the doorstep of the US Administration of the Day...whose automobile "task force" stipulated that Fiat S.p.A. produce a North American built compact car capable of achieving 40 miles per US gallon.

My hunch is that if Fiat S.p.A had its own way, they probably would have just directly imported the Alfa Romeo Giulietta to North America.

 

[ShawnP]

The Blue Oval was forced to build a car by this said task force also.

That car almost killed me.

Blue Oval is still paying off a loan because of that car/task force.

 

[Dave Z]

The Blue Oval was forced to build a car by this said task force also.

That car almost killed me.

Blue Oval is still paying off a loan because of that car/task force.

The Blue Oval had nothing to do with the task force. They applied for billions in zero-interest loans and got them. They knew what they were doing at the time - getting cheap government loans from the government so they could ironically pretend to be “government free.”

The Dart would have come regardless. At the time it was thought of, everyone wanted economy from a car. We were all remembering high gas prices. The Fiat engine was inevitable as they were showing off the merger. The rush to produce it was only FCA's fault. So what if they had to wait two more months for the stock to be granted? What difference would it have made? The government was a nonvoting partner.

Fact of the matter is most at the time were calling for Chrysler to be shut down, period, or donated to GM or Ford to be shut down by them. No other company wanted Chrysler. Magna did, but was caught in a sudden cash crunch. Would I have preferred for Magna to be loaned lots of money and given Chrysler? Do we know what would have happened then? That's not a question I will ever have to answer!

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Adventurer55]

Actually that's the only thing which is for sure good with FCA from Day 1. Nothing wrong there. It can only get worse.

I have been around Chrysler my whole 60 years. These past few years are very un Chryslerlike. Usually in times like these with old products in some cases, a lousy quality reputation, (deserved or not), they normally are burning cash. This time seems to be different. Whether this is from Sergio or despite him, only time will tell. I am a rarity on here, a Chrysler only lifer, never owned anything else. I'm also not a European side of the company hater. In order to survive, they all need each other. I hope they never lose sight of this.

 

[David S]

The Blue Oval had nothing to do with the task force. They applied for billions in zero-interest loans and got them. They knew what they were doing at the time - getting cheap government loans from the government so they could ironically pretend to be “government free.”

The Dart would have come regardless. At the time it was thought of, everyone wanted economy from a car. We were all remembering high gas prices. The Fiat engine was inevitable as they were showing off the merger. The rush to produce it was only FCA's fault. So what if they had to wait two more months for the stock to be granted? What difference would it have made? The government was a nonvoting partner.

Fact of the matter is most at the time were calling for Chrysler to be shut down, period, or donated to GM or Ford to be shut down by them. No other company wanted Chrysler. Magna did, but was caught in a sudden cash crunch. Would I have preferred for Magna to be loaned lots of money and given Chrysler? Do we know what would have happened then? That's not a question I will ever have to answer!

Hindsight is 20/20.

A car that got 40 mpg highway would have come due to the strings attached by the task force. It didn't have to come at the time it did, run on premium, or be on a widened C-Evo CUSW. It had to run on premium as long as the car was 3200 lb and they didn't give the engine direct injection. If they just tacked a trunk on Giulietta and made it in the US with a Dodge nose that would have saved 200 lbs. If they made it a sedan on SCCS SUSW they could have saved another 200 lb (2800 lb). An economy car running on premium was doomed to failure in the US. Unlike Europe the point is lower operating cost, not avoiding multiple CO2 taxes.

Would I have preferred loaning the money and giving the company to Magna instead of Fiat? Of course. In that case the Dart would have wound up an aero body on the Caliber, the transmission and engine would have to change. Perhaps a low boost direct injected version of the 1.8 WGE running on regular, with an 8 or 9 speed transmission purchased from someone, or an improved CVT. So much for the alternative past we could have gotten, but didn't.

As it was the 2.4 Caliber and Dart Aero had the exact same operating cost, due to the premium fuel. Combine that with the DCT and you see why it didn't sell. People did want an economy car, but not something more expensive than the Caliber with equal operating expense.

People still want economy cars. Elantra, Civic, Corolla Hatch and Forte provide that now with 2.0 or 1.5T power running on regular. Dodge needs to be in that segment as well with a new car after the merger. EMP1/CMP or EMP2 could work.

C4 III on EMP1/CMP weighs 2762 lbs with a 128 HP 1.2T. To be competitive in the US that would have to be replaced with the 177 HP 1.3T. All new sheet metal would be needed as C4 III is a 60" tall 5 door hatchback. 105.1" wheelbase (Corolla Hatch 103.9")

308 II GT on EMP2 weighs 2599 lbs with a 222 HP 1.6T. This is already competitive in the US. All new sheet metal would be needed for the US. GTi is 2624 lbs 259 HP 1.6T. 103.1" wheelbase.

508 II on EMP2 weighs 3075 lb with a 178 HP or 222 HP 1.6T. Just a new nose and tail needed. 110.0" wheelbase

 

[David S]

Yeah, excellent. Offer non space efficient FWD based products with no mechanical AWD solution with small engine which tends to blow. Did I said it's a brilliant idea?

As I told you many times before, a long wheelbase is a plus in the US. Electric AWD is a plus for most applications in the US.

The only application of the PSA-BMW Prince engine in the US was the Mini.

BMW fuel pumps were recalled, Mini ones were not. One recall on the timing chains of the old N14 engine that was replaced with the N18.
motoringfile com/2010/10/27/bmw-recalls-fuel-pumps-mini-does-not/

The FCA GSE isn't old enough in turbo form to have sufficient data to trust the reliability. It is certainly questionable to put a 1.3T in a 3500 lb truck. You keep saying a 1.5T is coming, but can't say if it is coming to the US. Of course these decision probably won't be made until the merger is official.

 

[somber]

I personally hope he's more like Bob Lutz then Sergio.

I watched an interview with Bob Lutz where he professed to being a big fan of Sergio. It sounded to me like Lutz respected Marchionne as much as (or even more than) any other leader in the automotive world.

 

[superduckie5000]

Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !
Another Merger of "EQUALS" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zagnut27]

Sergio was like anybody else. He had his strengths and his weaknesses, and depending on your point of view you either thought he did a good job or not. One thing is for sure, he has passed on. The next gen of leadership is going to have to put the merger into action and go on from there. We won't know for a few years yet just what that is going to look like, or if it is successful or not. It's all speculation at this point. Hurry up and wait.