[patfromigh]

I'm posting this here, although the DOJ thread might be better. Please note these investments are for Brazil, where this announcement was made.

Fiat adding Jeep Raises Investments to $75bn by 2016

Here's how the plan looks:

• January 2015: SUV compact (Project 338) and medium-size pick-up (Project 226), the latter based on the same medium-compact architecture that underpins the [Dodge Dart-based] Fiat Viaggio saloon (made and sold in China)
• December 2015: Two Jeep models: a SUV compact derived from Fiat’s 338 (renamed Project 530 for Brazil) and another SUV compact-medium (Project 546), this one based on the Project 226 medium-size pick-up
• January 2016: SUV compact-medium (Project XSU) based on Jeep’s Project 546.
• May 2016: At last, the compact-medium Viaggio saloon (Project 343) begins production, built on the versatile, new architecture shared with the Dodge Dart and Chinese Fiat Viaggio.

Source: http://www.just-auto.com/news/fiat-adding-jeep-raises-investments-to-75bn-by-2016_id134198.aspx

 

[RVC]

Ha! Just beat me to it Patfromhigh!

 

[MoparNorm]

I'm posting this here, although the DOJ thread might be better. Please note these investments are for Brazil, where this announcement was made.



Source: http://www.just-auto.com/news/fiat-adding-jeep-raises-investments-to-75bn-by-2016_id134198.aspx

Yep, like I wrote;
Marchionne wants common platforms, for cost reasons, regardless of performance disadvantages.

So Chrysler gets from the same Alfa platform, a Dart, a Chinese Dart, a mini truck, a Jeep and two CUV's....which is 4 more vehicles than Alfa received from it.

 

[RVC]

Marchionne wants common platforms, for cost reasons, regardless of performance disadvantage, so it's hard to guess, but you should also consider the Strada mini-truck, in your mix of platforms above. There is no guarantee that they will use a US platform or plant.
More likely Mexico, so that Brazil is in the mix, where the Strada is already produced and sold.

The Strada is way too small.
This small "truck" looks like it will be a Cherokee-based pickup except probably they will use a much simpler and sturdier suspension setup.

 

[MoparNorm]

The Strada is way too small. This small "truck" looks like it will be a Cherokee-based pickup

Yes, I didn't mean to indicate it would be based on that, only that the two might share the new platform.

 

[RVC]

Gotcha

 

[james.mooney.]

I'm posting this here, although the DOJ thread might be better. Please note these investments are for Brazil, where this announcement was made.


Source: http://www.just-auto.com/news/fiat-adding-jeep-raises-investments-to-75bn-by-2016_id134198.aspx

Sounds like they are talking about the 500X and new Strada* (Dart-based, which is roughly the same size as the current Strada), followed by the B-Jeep and new Patriot, and finally a Patriot-based FIAT CUV (Pandona or Alfa C-CUV) and Viaggio.

EDIT:

*They call the Dart "medium-compact" and the new pick-up "medium" but say they share the same "architecture," which is why I suggested that this is the next Strada, not Dakota. However, if they meant "platform" rather than "architecture," then the "medium" pickup may well be a Cherokee-based Dakota.

 

[james.mooney.]

Marchionne wants common platforms, for cost reasons, regardless of performance disadvantage, so it's hard to guess, but you should also consider the Strada mini-truck, in your mix of platforms above. There is no guarantee that they will use a US platform or plant.
More likely Mexico, so that Brazil is in the mix, where the Strada is already produced and sold.

Agreed, which is why I said Toluca is the most likely production site for the Dakota!

 

[MoparNorm]

Agreed, which is why I said Toluca is the most likely production site for the Dakota!

Agreed, which was why I was agreeing with you.

 

[patfromigh]

Project 226 will be made in Brazil. The question then becomes. Will the next Dodge Journey have a low load floor like the Doblo or a high load floor like the next Cherokee? Toluca could provide a very different vehicle than what is produced in Brazil.

 

[Stratuscaster]

Agreed. When it was a "mini-Ram", it had a bigger following.

And it wasn't even so much that it was a "mini-Ram" - it had a taut, muscular style to it (as did the same era Durango). Both lost quite a bit in the restyle - but those 2nd gen Dakota models - 97-04 - still catch my eye today.

 

[MoparNorm]

And it wasn't even so much that it was a "mini-Ram" - it had a taut, muscular style to it (as did the same era Durango). Both lost quite a bit in the restyle - but those 2nd gen Dakota models - 97-04 - still catch my eye today.

It was a 7/8 scale Ram, that taut, muscular style was because it mimicked the 1st Gen T-300.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

I justnfinished an interesting survey from Strategic Vision. It was for new Chrysler owners and how we perceive quality.

But the most interesting part was the last three questions:

Would you buy a car made in Italy?

Would you buy a car made in China?

Would you buy a car made in India?

 

[RVC]

Sounds like they are talking about the 500X and new Strada* (Dart-based, which is roughly the same size as the current Strada), followed by the B-Jeep and new Patriot, and finally a Patriot-based FIAT CUV (Pandona or Alfa C-CUV) and Viaggio.
EDIT:
*They call the Dart "medium-compact" and the new pick-up "medium" but say they share the same "architecture," which is why I suggested that this is the next Strada, not Dakota. However, if they meant "platform" rather than "architecture," then the "medium" pickup may well be a Cherokee-based Dakota.

The Strada is much smaller; it's based on the Palio, which is an offshoot of the 1st gen Punto (the small one), and later grande Punto (2009-->).
According to what Pat posted and also an earlier article from C&D Brazil I posted somewhere, the medium pickup will be based on CUSW.
That platform is also being installed on the new mega plant FIAT is building in Brazil, so from the Viaggio to this pickup to pretty much everything specific to the local market (Brazil+Argentina, the rest of southAm is peanuts) will be made locally with locally sourced engines.
My guess is the medium pickup will use part of the reinforced architecture developed for the Cherokee, also in order to allow for a 4x4-version.

I justnfinished an interesting survey from Strategic Vision. It was for new Chrysler owners and how we perceive quality.

But the most interesting part was the last three questions:

Would you buy a car made in Italy?

Would you buy a car made in China?

Would you buy a car made in India?

Worded like that, they are going to get 90% NOs across the board IMO...

 

[MoparNorm]

I justnfinished an interesting survey from Strategic Vision. It was for new Chrysler owners and how we perceive quality.

But the most interesting part was the last three questions:

Would you buy a car made in Italy?

Would you buy a car made in China?

Would you buy a car made in India?

That cannot bode well for future products and American workers???
They keep hinting that some of the chinese and Indian Jeeps will be sent to the US, that is a mistake.
The reason I own Jeeps and Dodge's is because I believe in buying American.
It really irritates me that my Dodge HD pickups are assembled in Mexico, the build quality suffers, even though they are good, they aren't as good as they could be.
I will not buy any product made in china, if I have a domestic choice.

 

[RVC]

That cannot bode well for future products and American workers???
They keep hinting that some of the chinese and Indian Jeeps will be sent to the US, that is a mistake.
The reason I own Jeeps and Dodge's is because I believe in buying American.
It really irritates me that my Dodge HD pickups are assembled in Mexico, the build quality suffers, even though they are good, they aren't as good as they could be.
I will not buy any product made in china, if I have a domestic choice.

They are probably fielding out these questions to see what the general sentiment is. Worded like that, they will get a resounding NO.

Had they said, "would you buy a car made in XYZ if it had the same quality and costed 20% less", then probably the answers could have been very different

Btw, I thought the quality of the Mexican plant was one of the best ones of the group, worldwide. Maybe I'm remembering wrong...

 

[MoparNorm]

They are probably fielding out these questions to see what the general sentiment is. Worded like that, they will get a resounding NO.
Had they said, "would you buy a car made in XYZ if it had the same quality and costed 20% less", then probably the answers could have been very different
Btw, I thought the quality of the Mexican plant was one of the best ones of the group, worldwide. Maybe I'm remembering wrong...

Worded in any manner, it should be a resounding no.
The Mexican plant quality is very high, however there are issues with employee turnover, which make the training costs very high.
It's something in the neighborhood of every position turns over 2-3 times per year, which isn't a good position for management, however that is an improvement over just three years ago.
In a perfect world, you would build them where you sell them. They shouldn't need to waste money, on a survey, to figure that out.

 

[tomtex]

I think we need free trade with Brazil as soon as posable.

 

[Stratuscaster]

It was a 7/8 scale Ram, that taut, muscular style was because it mimicked the 1st Gen T-300.

Aside from the similar "hood-higher-than-fenders" styling cue, it didn't remind me of a Ram 1500 any more than the Durango did. IMHO, if it was "just" a 7/8 Ram 1500 in styling, it wouldn't have sold as well.

 

[patfromigh]

If Fiat produces a CUSW pickup in Brazil, and then exports a version as a lifestyle truck to the USA, it will be called a club coupe SUV instead of a club cab pickup. There won't be a tax applied, look at the Subaru Brat.

The Strada is only produced in Brazil, yet is sold far outside of Latin America.