Issue with Allpar "Missing MOPARS"
2950
11
I just read the article on Allpar called "5 Missing MOPARS" and I need to take issue with the PT Cruiser part of the article. The author stated this "Not until the 2006 redesign did the PT go from being a premium, desirable car to a joke,"
REALLY?
Not sure how this person became so mis-informed but that statement is stunning in its ignorance. Now I understand that especially in the 2008-10 models that were mainly sold to fleets in the "Touring" trim they were cheapened considerably. BUT to say that anything after 2005 is a "joke" makes this author lose all credibility on this subject.
Last year I spent almost 7 months looking for a used PT. I read every single word written on ALLPAR and related sites about PTs. I finally decided on a 2006 and after model because of the following reasons.
1 The 2001-2 models with the grey bumpers look like hell, period.
2 The 1G models dashboards instruments are too small and the compass display etc on the roof is a dumb place to put it since one rarely looks there. The EVIC and compass and radio display in the cluster is much better. Also the analog clock add a touch of class to the interior. There is NO way the 1G interior has a more "premium" feel than the 2g Limited and GT models. The center console is much more usable than the drawer under the passenger seat. The driver can actully use it while driving. (what a concept)
3 It was difficult to find a 1G with tan interior. I hate grey or black.
4 The power seat in a 1G is another joke since it only goes up or down.
5 The Boston RAQ system with BA speakers sound MILES better than any stock 1G unit.
6 Even though the front grill looks nicer on the 1G, the way the bumpers wrap more smoothly into the body on the 2G models looks much better.
SO what I got was a 2007 Limited Turbo. Sunroof, BA RAQ/UConnect stereo, tan leather/suede interior with 53K miles in Tangering Pearl.
I got the Limited instead of the GT because we did not like how the 17in wheels rode and how the dash had the fake and cheap looking "carbon" look instead of body color inserts. The 180HP Turbo is fine...especially with its K&N intake. I drove a 2004 and a 2006 back to back at Carmax (I got my car from a private party and I am sthe second owner) and the 2G rode better and was quieter all around. I love the 1G models just fine, but just had to say something to make sure that the above article was not taken as gospel, because its BS plain and simple.
REALLY?
Not sure how this person became so mis-informed but that statement is stunning in its ignorance. Now I understand that especially in the 2008-10 models that were mainly sold to fleets in the "Touring" trim they were cheapened considerably. BUT to say that anything after 2005 is a "joke" makes this author lose all credibility on this subject.
Last year I spent almost 7 months looking for a used PT. I read every single word written on ALLPAR and related sites about PTs. I finally decided on a 2006 and after model because of the following reasons.
1 The 2001-2 models with the grey bumpers look like hell, period.
2 The 1G models dashboards instruments are too small and the compass display etc on the roof is a dumb place to put it since one rarely looks there. The EVIC and compass and radio display in the cluster is much better. Also the analog clock add a touch of class to the interior. There is NO way the 1G interior has a more "premium" feel than the 2g Limited and GT models. The center console is much more usable than the drawer under the passenger seat. The driver can actully use it while driving. (what a concept)
3 It was difficult to find a 1G with tan interior. I hate grey or black.
4 The power seat in a 1G is another joke since it only goes up or down.
5 The Boston RAQ system with BA speakers sound MILES better than any stock 1G unit.
6 Even though the front grill looks nicer on the 1G, the way the bumpers wrap more smoothly into the body on the 2G models looks much better.
SO what I got was a 2007 Limited Turbo. Sunroof, BA RAQ/UConnect stereo, tan leather/suede interior with 53K miles in Tangering Pearl.
I got the Limited instead of the GT because we did not like how the 17in wheels rode and how the dash had the fake and cheap looking "carbon" look instead of body color inserts. The 180HP Turbo is fine...especially with its K&N intake. I drove a 2004 and a 2006 back to back at Carmax (I got my car from a private party and I am sthe second owner) and the 2G rode better and was quieter all around. I love the 1G models just fine, but just had to say something to make sure that the above article was not taken as gospel, because its BS plain and simple.
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Joined
·
480 Posts
It's subjective at best, and everyone has tastes and preferences, which is where some of your points fall, tastes and preferences.
Really, both this and the article is an opinion piece.
Really, both this and the article is an opinion piece.
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
25,539 Posts
The issue is that in 2006, the market mix changed from mostly high end to mostly low end sales, and in 2007, the rebates started coming, bigger and bigger. I know there were benefits from the redesign, but for the most part, it was a cheapening.
Joined
·
1,094 Posts
I have an 04 PT, while my wife has an 07 and my daughter an 08; so I have long term experience with both versions of the PT. The most frustrating aspect of the refresh is apart from the interior and standard features, the refresh really made the PT a better vehicle. If I drive the 07 (or 08) and limit my vision to the instrument panel, and ignore the seats, the newer PTs are defintely better; more quiet, a bit better ride and handling, and an instrument panel that is miles better than the older panel, especially at dawn or dusk. However, the rest of the interior, especially the seats, are not as nice as my PT. My wife always says she much prefers the seats in my 04, especially when she wears shorts; and really does not like the material of the newer seats. They do show the dirt a lot. Also, riding any distance in the newer seats is nowhere near as comfortable as the seats in my 04. That's why, even though my 04 has over 273,000 miles, we still take that car on long distance trips (in addition to having cruise control). I do like the larger glove compartment in the newer PTs as well.DaveAdmin said:
The exteriors are pretty much the same with the exception of the grill, tailights, bumpers and the rear hatch release. I like both versions pretty much equally, although the grill on my wife's 07, with the chrome grill trim, looks very nice to me.
All of that said, when my 04 PT bites the dust, I wouldn't hesitate to get an 06 or newer PT, and in fact would love to find a 2010 to get the final year.
"Really, both this and the article is an opinion piece. "
Yeah, one is based on facts and one is based on trying to appear dramatic to prove his point. How is the fact that the 2g has a more useful power seat an "opinion"? Or the fact that the BA stereo has better speakers and a 368 amp an "opinion"?...or the fact that the center console is usable by the driver while driving? Yes, some things like the horrible grey bumpers are taste (does anybody REALLY like the grey bumpers better though???) and grey vs tan interior and the bumper wrap are subjective but the other items are really not.
"The issue is that in 2006, the market mix changed from mostly high end to mostly low end sales"
A great example of WRONG info. Actually in 2005 is when the trim lines were re-shuffled to make the Touring model the true base model for better sales. Most people dont realize this at all and continue to think its true. Here is a quote from a great source and the link. "However, the decontented 'value approach' begun in 2005 continues for the most part (Touring models have gained back the security alarm and the light group). " http://richweb.allpar.net/ptcruiser.htm
Come on Mr Zatz, you can do better than that. I know its your site, but why wipe out the truth just to prove a point?
"However, the rest of the interior, especially the seats, are not as nice as my PT. My wife always says she much prefers the seats in my 04, especially when she wears shorts; and really does not like the material of the newer seats. They do show the dirt a lot. Also, riding any distance in the newer seats is nowhere near as comfortable as the seats in my 04."
I may agree with you on base or Touring models with manual, cloth seats. But I have the leather/suede, power seat with lumbar adjustment (I have two blown discs) and the comfort of the 2G power adjustable seats is better for me (yes subjective). I do agree that the cloth on the base models seems cheaper BUT in 2007 they went to YES esentials stain resistant seat fabric.
I dont mean to seem snarky at all. But the response above sniffing that "both are just opinions" is a total cop out because that poster knows that saying the 2G is a joke is not a defensible position. . I LOVE ALLPAR and have been reading it for years (ever since I bought a used 98 Stratus ES) but sometimes when such blantently WRONG info appears, one has to say something. I have also noticed a bit of 1G snobbery in some people (NOT anybody posting above) regarding 2G models. I was at a car show a few months ago with several PTs. Mine was parked in the lot (not a part of the show) and a guy with a 2001 (nice condition) in the show was pontificating about how much better the 1Gs were. He used the same tired BS that the article. When I politely pointed out simple facts like the power seat, more powerful GT engine, center console and IP, he got extremely irritated that somebody would DARE to dis-agree with him. The best part of his diatribe was him trying to say that ANY PT without grey bumpers was not a "real" PT because was not the "original" design. SIGH.
I would not call ANY PT a "joke", ever. Were the last two model years vastly different in trims? Absolutely!! Fleet sales rocketed in 08-10 and that makes any car take a hit in reputation and perception of quality. But to simply put out a blanket statement like the above and continue to spew wrong info was the wrong thing to do. Discussing or debating the differences in a fun and friendly way would always be welcome, but ALLPAR needs to fact check a bit better.
Come on David, you can do better than that.
Yeah, one is based on facts and one is based on trying to appear dramatic to prove his point. How is the fact that the 2g has a more useful power seat an "opinion"? Or the fact that the BA stereo has better speakers and a 368 amp an "opinion"?...or the fact that the center console is usable by the driver while driving? Yes, some things like the horrible grey bumpers are taste (does anybody REALLY like the grey bumpers better though???) and grey vs tan interior and the bumper wrap are subjective but the other items are really not.
"The issue is that in 2006, the market mix changed from mostly high end to mostly low end sales"
A great example of WRONG info. Actually in 2005 is when the trim lines were re-shuffled to make the Touring model the true base model for better sales. Most people dont realize this at all and continue to think its true. Here is a quote from a great source and the link. "However, the decontented 'value approach' begun in 2005 continues for the most part (Touring models have gained back the security alarm and the light group). " http://richweb.allpar.net/ptcruiser.htm
Come on Mr Zatz, you can do better than that. I know its your site, but why wipe out the truth just to prove a point?
"However, the rest of the interior, especially the seats, are not as nice as my PT. My wife always says she much prefers the seats in my 04, especially when she wears shorts; and really does not like the material of the newer seats. They do show the dirt a lot. Also, riding any distance in the newer seats is nowhere near as comfortable as the seats in my 04."
I may agree with you on base or Touring models with manual, cloth seats. But I have the leather/suede, power seat with lumbar adjustment (I have two blown discs) and the comfort of the 2G power adjustable seats is better for me (yes subjective). I do agree that the cloth on the base models seems cheaper BUT in 2007 they went to YES esentials stain resistant seat fabric.
I dont mean to seem snarky at all. But the response above sniffing that "both are just opinions" is a total cop out because that poster knows that saying the 2G is a joke is not a defensible position. . I LOVE ALLPAR and have been reading it for years (ever since I bought a used 98 Stratus ES) but sometimes when such blantently WRONG info appears, one has to say something. I have also noticed a bit of 1G snobbery in some people (NOT anybody posting above) regarding 2G models. I was at a car show a few months ago with several PTs. Mine was parked in the lot (not a part of the show) and a guy with a 2001 (nice condition) in the show was pontificating about how much better the 1Gs were. He used the same tired BS that the article. When I politely pointed out simple facts like the power seat, more powerful GT engine, center console and IP, he got extremely irritated that somebody would DARE to dis-agree with him. The best part of his diatribe was him trying to say that ANY PT without grey bumpers was not a "real" PT because was not the "original" design. SIGH.
I would not call ANY PT a "joke", ever. Were the last two model years vastly different in trims? Absolutely!! Fleet sales rocketed in 08-10 and that makes any car take a hit in reputation and perception of quality. But to simply put out a blanket statement like the above and continue to spew wrong info was the wrong thing to do. Discussing or debating the differences in a fun and friendly way would always be welcome, but ALLPAR needs to fact check a bit better.
Come on David, you can do better than that.
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
25,539 Posts
I personally do not believe either generation PT was a joke in terms of the quality of the car, but that was when public perception radically deteriorated. I should have clarified. I'll rewrite it.
Joined
·
1,094 Posts
Great point on the leather seats. They were very nice (and comfortable) on the second generation PTs, at least when new. Don't have any idea at all how well they wear. I almost bought a 2008 Walter P Chrysler edition PT and the biggest plus for me was those seats.
To me, if I could take the first generation PT seats and put them in a second generation PT, that would be a better vehicle. The improved instrument panel is a big plus, as well as the quieter ride, larger glove box, and center console. I could live with the center console, which to me is not as refined as the first generation, but I do think the standard radios were nicer on the first generation.
But like I said, I would easily go for either generation, and in fact have.
To me, if I could take the first generation PT seats and put them in a second generation PT, that would be a better vehicle. The improved instrument panel is a big plus, as well as the quieter ride, larger glove box, and center console. I could live with the center console, which to me is not as refined as the first generation, but I do think the standard radios were nicer on the first generation.
But like I said, I would easily go for either generation, and in fact have.
I won't deny that I like the exterior pre-facelift much better than after it was changed. The cues made a lot more sense and I've seen a fair number of PTs with aftermarket front grilles/bumper covers that delete the center bumper to make for one big grille. Looks good when done right.
I think the 1G radios were nicer looking as well as being easier to replace being single DIN. But the newer design is easier to operate because the buttons are bigger....but its size (DIN 1/2) with that cut out for the volume knob makes replacement difficult. But the Boston Acoustics RAQ really is stunning for a factory installed unit. I never new where the amp was until I replaced the panel on the side of the drivers seat (car wash guy slipped and fell on the side of the seat and broke it)...I found it under the drivers seat. The window sticker lists it at 368 watts and it sounds like it. The 1g with speakers in the D pillers may have a better soundstage for the rear passengers but the door mounted speakers have more air to play with. I really dont think the sub is needed (maybe I am old) with 4 door speakers and I miss the cubby where the sub is mounted. Its funny that with the discs I make for the car, the sub rarely fires much at all. But sometimes advertisements on FM makes the car shake even with the volume on low! LOL
Again, I think the 1g radios and speaker placement probably is better when not comparing to the RAQ/BA system. But compared to the BA system, the 2G is superior. I think (after spending a HUGE amount of time comparing before buying) that in Limited and GT trims (up to 2007 MY) the 2G is much improved machine overall, with virtually no downside except for the front grill. In lower trims up to 2007 it is more of a toss up. After 2007 it went way downhill fast when it became a fleet special and lost the GT trim and with virtually zero Limited units sold.
Since you have both Gs you have a unique perspective on this. Most people with 1g only models tend to have opinions like Dave's above.......that the 1g is totally superior and wont even listen to any other opinions. As you now, there are advantages to both.
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
