Mmkay sure. Just the latest “plan”. Remember how a few years ago all the brands had a 10 year timeline to rebuild? Yeah STLA forgot about that too. Or remember that time they promised the UAW that they were going to build new product at Belvedere and then they closed the plant instead? Fun.

 

People called me cynical and harsh when I said moving the start date to 2028 meant they had no intention of building ANYTHING at Belvidere, and yet... it turns out they were not planning to build anything there.

Tavares' apparent plan: spend nothing but the bare minimum and hope to get many big bonuses before he leaves a bankrupt company behind - just like Chainsaw Al Dunlop.

 

Oh, so we're admitting that we've been under-investing in state-side development? Just a little?

The only thing they seem like they want to do is as little as possible still. "Maybe Chrysler" doesn't bode well for the "we're still alive" mantra they were spouting only a month or two ago.

 

Oh, so we're admitting that we've been under-investing in state-side development? Just a little?

The only thing they seem like they want to do is as little as possible still. "Maybe Chrysler" doesn't bode well for the "we're still alive" mantra they were spouting only a month or two ago.

I think those of us who have been around long enough to become as cynical as we are about this company know that Chrysler, as a brand, is done. STLA can hardly publicly admit it though because they want to keep selling Pacifica/Caravan/Voyagers as long as the platform legally meets safety standards and the public won't buy vehicles from an automaker that's discontinued. The Pacifica is the last Chrysler. Ever.

 

I think the reality is clear. Fiat and Peugeot are not going to be the profit leaders of the company. So why is all the investment going that way?

 

Eurocentric since 2017. Maybe that'll change now.

 

$10 billion is not very much in the auto industry.
I suspect reopening Belvidere with a new car would eat all of it... reopening for several STLA Medium cars simply re-tuned for the US would probably eat most of it.

 

$10 billion is not very much in the auto industry.
I suspect reopening Belvidere with a new car would eat all of it... reopening for several STLA Medium cars simply re-tuned for the US would probably eat most of it.

Probably one new SUV with several badges. Including a Dodge and a Chrysler.

 

Sorry not very convincing and certainly doesn’t give me confidence in the future of those brands.

One model each won’t save them…

 

Just make the pacifica a dodge call it a grand caravan and let’s be done with it.

 

Needs a "Dodge" fratzog in the middle of the grille.

 

I mean it did and it didn't. Basically with the death of the 200 in 2015, that sealed the fate. They pushed out the Pacifica in what? 2016 mostly due to sunk cost and then they basically said that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wagoneers were originally envisioned as Chryslers and they were like nahhhhh make them Jeeps so we can make more money off them. Hence that was the moment in the management's eyes that Chrysler was dead.

Dodge on the other hand, that brand was on fire if they could have just kept making new cars on that muscle image. Even PHEV's and EV's could have been made in that image if done right. But lack of investment starting really with the delay of the Charger/Challenger refresh in 2021 started a downward spiral for that brand, and by proxy any stablemate that would have gone to Chrysler.

 

When they started with the really obvious badge-engineering job, it didn't help the image, and then whoever's idea it was to do the EV coupe released first.. sigh. I'm calling that horse dead, but still. Point remains. Shitastic product planning.

 

So, basically, Stellantis announces that it plans to do its job. Now expects a pat on the back...?

 

Remember a Dakota replacement and a Gladiator 4xe were also in the plans.

 

A chart of Stellantis's plan for N.A. got leaked!

 

I doubt Christine will be returning to Carlisle next July.

 

Oh, so we're admitting that we've been under-investing in state-side development? Just a little?

The only thing they seem like they want to do is as little as possible still. "Maybe Chrysler" doesn't bode well for the "we're still alive" mantra they were spouting only a month or two ago.

Filosa has been more than transparent that they've underinvested in this region. That started when he made a big deal of stating his home office is in Auburn Hills.

Anyways, I agree, Bloomberg only stating "maybe Chrysler" is sad.

So, basically, Stellantis announces that it plans to do its job. Now expects a pat on the back...?

I'm a bit confused by the tone in this thread. Bloomberg released this news...not Stellantis. Where does it appear they're asking for pat on the back?

 

Yup. Dakota replacement is back in forward planning, though they keep saying "We will NOT call it Dakota."

They would call it Grand Caravan, wouldn't they? Like there's still a Caravan? They could just make it Dodge Voyager and preserve some continuity. Nobody seemed to care in Canada when they had Chrysler Grand Caravan (again with the Grand).

 

Yup. Dakota replacement is back in forward planning, though they keep saying "We will NOT call it Dakota."

They would call it Grand Caravan, wouldn't they? Like there's still a Caravan? They could just make it Dodge Voyager and preserve some continuity. Nobody seemed to care in Canada when they had Chrysler Grand Caravan (again with the Grand).

Thats because know one knows it exists. Its not advertised and doesn’t sell.

Its also no longer a top ten vehicle in this country.

Price it right, label it Dodge, advertise, drape the Made in Canada flag on it and I bet it would take off.

 

Yeah, product planners can get stuck in nuance consumers do not care a fib about.

This is not unique to Stellantis, though.

 

They could spend maybe half of that just fixing all the quality issues with their current vehicles, and shoring up their service supply chain so 4xe customers can get things fixed in less than a week, and hopefully stop visiting the dealers except for routine maintenance??? Maybe?

 

There is evidence they are doing that right now

 

Well... I think we saw that coming as soon as Tim K took over. He's made his views on gas mileage pretty clear. Also, I suspect they were having serious problems integrating it, or it would be in ages ago, and it doesn't seem like a buy/no-buy factor for a lot of people.

The question is whether a future evolution of 4xe is coming or not. You'd think they'd at least develop it "in case."

Electric rates rising rapidly are the gas companies' dream, and seem to be our future in general thanks to AI data centers - but will be blamed on wind and solar because y'know the cheapest forms of energy are the ones driving up rates.

 

I think the writing was on the wall before Tim K. The first clue to me was when they made the big announcement about Wrangler 4xe being placed in rental fleets. I began seeing lots of blue tow hooks in the rental lot Wrangler selection - when it used to be rare to see many Wranglers of any form on the rental lots.
Then came more than one dealer telling me they aren’t going to stock new 4xes. I think these dealers are gun shy because we’re in an area that got forced for several months to only stock 4xe models.
And still way too many horror stories, especially now Grand Cherokee 4xe, shutting down or dealers unable to fix issues.
I don’t trust mine. That’s sad because it is enjoyable to drive, but 3 module replacements in less than 3 years of ownership is not good. The only good thing was the last wait was one week, the time before was four weeks (better than the promised 6-8 but still ridiculous).

 

I guess if you haven't been around the former Chrysler too long, then buying something like a 4xe might seem like a great idea. But, in my opinion, buying anything electric from them or others at least for me isn't in my best interest. Why? Because whatever is being sold right now isn't the future electric answer. Stellantis needs to make proper hybrids, not the Pacifica kind or the Jeep kind. But one thats reliable even if they have to license the technology or buy existing tech from someone that knows hybrids. Like Toyota for example. Whenever they introduce something that others don't have, it usually takes them several years to fix, or they cancel it altogether. Is it sad? Yes, but they aren't the only ones that have done it in the past either.

 

Typical Stellantis meeting regarding U.S. operations.....

 

If they axe the full 4xe hybrid platform, it will be a rotten, dirty shame.
I LOVE the platform, how it performs, and how I can control and choose what power source to use and when. As well as the supplemental short range all-electric use.

The problem is that the software is buggy as hell, and many of the components are sub-par and have high failure rates.
The worst of all, (and I guess Dave says they "are" addressing? I'll believe it when I see it) the very very long lead times causing 4xe customers to leave their vehicles sitting on dealer repair lots for weeks, months, maybe more.

If they can iron all that out, I strongly believe they could give almighty Toyota a run for their Hybrid money.

 

If they axe the full 4xe hybrid platform, it will be a rotten, dirty shame.
I LOVE the platform, how it performs, and how I can control and choose what power source to use and when. As well as the supplemental short range all-electric use.

The problem is that the software is buggy as hell, and many of the components are sub-par and have high failure rates.
The worst of all, (and I guess Dave says they "are" addressing? I'll believe it when I see it) the very very long lead times causing 4xe customers to leave their vehicles sitting on dealer repair lots for weeks, months, maybe more.

If they can iron all that out, I strongly believe they could give almighty Toyota a run for their Hybrid money.

Given the current climate, I'd be shocked if it survives. Usually they disappear about the time they debug things. The A604 was an exception.

 

I wonder where Chrysler would be today IF Lutz took over from Lido?

 

I wonder where Chrysler would be today IF Lutz took over from Lido?

View attachment 118159 View attachment 118160

I've wondered that many times myself. I have never understood why he chose Eaton. I know his ego got in the way for Lutz, but why Eaton?

 

Good evening, if they don't reopen Brampton their Canadian sales will never be recovered and I would suspect a hell of a lot more will be lost, me for one .
MOPAR Always ! 🤞

 

In the first 9 months stellantis sold 87K vehicles in Canada down 10K from the previous year 2024 . In a country of 40 million ppl you think Canadians consumers care or will boycott if Brampton closes . Toyota sold 198K the first 9 months in Canada 2025. Brand loyalty doesn’t exist anymore , its price & quality that sells.

 

How many Canadians care about where their cars are made? I'd say it's the highest ever now, but Canadians are always going to pursue value over all else, and I bet 80%+ have no idea where their car was produced. The only thing Chrysler has going for it is that it's still considered part of the Big 3 and 'domestic' even though it has less Canadian production than GM, Honda or Toyota.

 

Doesn't Toyota make cars in Canada still?