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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From the article:

Jeep has no plans to cede its domination of off-road adventure to competitors.

But that doesn't mean the fight won't be brutal.

Days are gone when Jeep owned the segment with little debate.

On Friday, Ford debuted a Ford Expedition Timberline Off-Grid concept that will be featured at the Overland Expo East in Arrington, Virginia this weekend.

The one-off model is based on the new 2022 Ford Expedition Timberline series touted as "the most off-road-capable Expedition ever" with features including improved ground clearance.

It's designed to show "a futuristic view" of family adventure, including a mobile basecamp,” Robert Varto, program manager of the concept, said in a Ford news release.

Full article here:

Jeep exec skeptical about Ford Bronco Explorer, Expedition capability (freep.com)
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
"Jeep has had phenomenal success over the last decade. Sales have exploded all over the world as it has expanded its model line. It's stunning that the rest of the industry let it get away with that for so long," said longtime industry observer John McElroy, host of "Autoline After Hours" podcast and webcast.

Just about every company these days has a big white board in the planning room with every single Jeep model targeted, McElroy said.
 

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every single Jeep model
Yeah, I highly doubt the Compass/Renegade were truly being targeted. Maybe the Cherokee on up. Maybe companies are taking the route of putting ideas from both into one car line: but I highly doubt people see them as trouble. At most, a good idea to improve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah, I highly doubt the Compass/Renegade were truly being targeted. Maybe the Cherokee on up. Maybe companies are taking the route of putting ideas from both into one car line: but I highly doubt people see them as trouble. At most, a good idea to improve.
There is a reason Ford created the Bronco Sport.....the Compass and Renegade Trailhawks. Ford appears to have done better than Jeep. The Bronco is holding its own against the Wrangler already.

The Explorer Timberline will not beat a Grand Cherokee Trailhawk, but for those who want some capability without Jeep's dealer service, it is a viable alternative.
 

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The primary problem with trying to base your company's entire foundation on one division and one type of vehicle is being exposed right now. Others will catch on to it and will seek to do it better than you. Like it or not, you have to learn how to be competitive. It happened before with the minivan and now it's a dead heat sales show down.
 

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A Forward Cab Van would be a good fit to compete amongst those attempting to enter the Jeep spectrum. Plus it'll be a good competition against VW upcoming offerings.
 

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If he’s talking about “competition” then they’re worried about competition. If you’re not concerned, why say anything?
 

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There is a reason Ford created the Bronco Sport.....the Compass and Renegade Trailhawks. Ford appears to have done better than Jeep. The Bronco is holding its own against the Wrangler already.

The Explorer Timberline will not beat a Grand Cherokee Trailhawk, but for those who want some capability without Jeep's dealer service, it is a viable alternative.

I bought my first Ford; a new 2015 Ford Expedition Limited 4x4, after owning GM and Dodge vehicles for 45+ years. It replaced a Dodge Durango SLT 4x4, purchased new. The Ford dealer service, customer-pay and warranty, has been fair to poor. I’m on my third Ford dealer.

My family still owns a Jeep, a Ram and a Dodge. The dealer service for those vehicles has been great.

Ford must improve its dealer service, or lose customers. I have vowed to never buy another new Ford - based upon their dealer service. When I talk to others with a Ford, I hear the same problems I encounter trying to get service (COVID pandemic notwithstanding).
 

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There is a reason Ford created the Bronco Sport.....the Compass and Renegade Trailhawks. Ford appears to have done better than Jeep. The Bronco is holding its own against the Wrangler already.

The Explorer Timberline will not beat a Grand Cherokee Trailhawk, but for those who want some capability without Jeep's dealer service, it is a viable alternative.
If you are insinuating Ford Dealer service is any better than CDJR , you’ve not been to many Ford Dealer service Departments. Never owned a Ford, but I’ve had the unfortunate task of driving them as company vehicles in my job for over 10 years. Dealers are horrible.
 

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We have a 21 Explorer and an 11 Mustang, and both times the buying experience was top notch. Dealer service has been pretty good. By comparison, the CDJR dealer across the street (owned by the same group) has been hit or miss over the years while I had my Liberty, and the other dealer across town was atrocious. When we bought the Explorer, we were treated like family. When I went in to my CDJR dealer to look at a Durango, they weren't bad, but not great either...just looked sad or maybe disinterested. They were definitely better than the moron I talked to at the GMC dealer though.

There's just no consistency with the experiences you get from dealers though, and I don't know if it's necessarily brand-specific. I do wonder why my Ford dealer seems to be better than the CDJR dealer which is part of the same group, it's the same ownership. I feel like good customer service is a rarity these days, no matter where you go, and that's a shame. It really is worth the time and investment.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you are insinuating Ford Dealer service is any better than CDJR , you’ve not been to many Ford Dealer service Departments. Never owned a Ford, but I’ve had the unfortunate task of driving them as company vehicles in my job for over 10 years. Dealers are horrible.
Nothing to insinuate. Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant.

Surveys have shown that Stellantis dealers in the US are far behind Ford, GM and others in customer service.

Data vs "stories"
 
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Nothing to insinuate. Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant.

Surveys have shown that Stellantis dealers in the US are far behind Ford, GM and others in customer service.

Data vs "stories"
What surveys show Ford and GM dealers far ahead? I’d like to see those listed specifically so we can be sure we are not anecdotal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
What surveys show Ford and GM dealers far ahead? I’d like to see those listed specifically so we can be sure we are not anecdotal.
Honda Races Into First and Lexus Gains Competition in Luxury, as Customer Satisfaction With Auto Industry Stays in Neutral, ACSI Data Show (yahoo.com)


Among domestic manufacturers, Ford rebounds 1% to 77, tying GM, which is unchanged. Stellantis (which comprises the Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram nameplates) sits in third place, down 1% to 76.

2021 Dealer Experience Awards and Ratings | J.D. Power (jdpower.com)


FCA brands are grouped at the bottom
 
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Jim Morrison's comments are terrible. I'm a Mopar fan, but they're focusing on Jeep too much. Forced to choose between the GC L and a Explorer Timberline? Might actually pick the Ford. Offer a lifted Durango with some fender flares, skid plates and 4-Lo? Then, for sure I would likely stay with Stellantis. Not everyone wants a Jeep and not every Mopar fan will blindly support the brand.
 

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Did Ford ever claim Explorer could take on Grand Cherokee in its most off-road capable trims? Compared to the softer versions of most Jeeps, it probably matches up much better, especially since most customers aren’t taking their vehicles aggressively off-road (even for Wrangler). Not to mention FCA has put out more than their fair share of “stickers and paint appearance packages”, so that comment was rather curious.

I’ve said this before, but other brands only need to “look the part” which is what a lot of customers are looking for, and if they can provide the capability too then it’s a bonus. Jeep has to have the capability as well, because their reputation is built upon it.
 

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Honda Races Into First and Lexus Gains Competition in Luxury, as Customer Satisfaction With Auto Industry Stays in Neutral, ACSI Data Show (yahoo.com)


Among domestic manufacturers, Ford rebounds 1% to 77, tying GM, which is unchanged. Stellantis (which comprises the Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram nameplates) sits in third place, down 1% to 76.

2021 Dealer Experience Awards and Ratings | J.D. Power (jdpower.com)


FCA brands are grouped at the bottom
So according to JD Power, Stell. Dealers are the worst, and Ford really stinks too. So my experience has not been anecdotal and irrelevant. It is actually quite relevant to the discussion at hand. Ford may smoke Jeep on the offroad stuff. Time will tell. But if they do it will not be because consumers flocked away from Jeep and over to Ford because of dealer service, as yes, you insinuate.
 

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I’ve said this before, but other brands only need to “look the part” which is what a lot of customers are looking for, and if they can provide the capability too then it’s a bonus. Jeep has to have the capability as well, because their reputation is built upon it.
Reminds me of all those four-cylinder Mustangs and six-cylinder Barracudas sold back in the 1970s... not to mention most Pontiac Fieros. You just have to look the part most of the time. (I believe slant six Dusters outsold 340s around 100:1 if not 1,000:1).
 
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