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Jeep should have replied with action rather than words.

Bronco made Jeep offers what a lot of people asked for in Wrangler.

Jeep said they can't trail-rate Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer. I call BS. The platform already offers Rebel and TRX.
Expedition Tremor is offering what Jeep doesn't offer for a Full-size BOF SUV. It will, hopefully, expedite Jeep decision to offer a Trailhawk version of the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer.
 

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Jeep did take some actions, the 392 and Xtrene Recon may not have happened without Ford’s competition.

But acting like there is no competition is a recipe for disaster.
 

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Saying they can't offer off road packages on Wagoneer is about the dumbest thing I've heard from them in like five minutes. It's Ram based for gods sake. Like I've stated before, this takes work to do these things. They're not stickers and such, so even though I'm not a Ford lover, I hope they keep the pressure on them. Make them earn the large sums of money that management makes.
 

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Have they said why they can’t trail rate them?
 

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Have they said why they can’t trail rate them?
In order to be a Trail Rated Jeep, the vehicle must pass five outlined criteria in order to place the Trail Rated medallion on its fender. The five criteria are traction, water fording, articulation, maneuverability, and ground clearance. The new Wagoneer models meet all of these criteria except one… maneuverability.
“These have off-road packages for 10-inches of ground clearance, skid plates, tow hooks, off-road all-terrain tires and are very capable but they are not a trail-size vehicle, so we haven’t Trail Rated these vehicles,” Vice President of Jeep Brand – North America, Jim Morrison.
Not sure if they want to be honest about it, or they just don’t want to do it.
 

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Jeep should have replied with action rather than words.
Bronco made Jeep offers what a lot of people asked for in Wrangler.
Jeep said they can't trail-rate Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer. I call BS. The platform already offers Rebel and TRX.
Are there going to be very many buyers of such a vehicle that starts at $60,000 and goes over $100k? How many luxury ORV's with 35's will really sell? Full optioned out GW, Dana 44's F&R, locking difs, eSwaybars and heated/cooled cupholders. $120,000. o_O
 

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With regard to Wagoneer vs Expedition, take great care is discerning "Trail Rated" from "Off Road capable". I would surmise just based on the specs of the Wagoneer it is quite capable off road. However, what Jeep is actually saying when they won't trail rate it is that Trail Rated is based on the Rubicon course they set up, and generally speaking vehicles the size of Wagoneer are not a good fit for those trails.

Many trails have maximum widths, and anything over the width will get absolutely destroyed or stuck without destroying the trail. Running trails is something you are supposed to do responsibly and intelligently, not plow through like a madman.

And hmmm, would you look at that, Wagoneer offers on "Advanced All-Terrain Group" option on the series 2 as a $2,295 option. That option package is more than enough to compete (or beat) the Expedition.

I enjoy fun banter between companies like this, however I don't think Jeep is resting on their laurels with regard to the Timberline, it already had a package ready before this was revealed.
 

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Are there going to be very many buyers of such a vehicle that starts at $60,000 and goes over $100k? How many luxury ORV's with 35's will really sell? Full optioned out GW, Dana 44's F&R, locking difs, eSwaybars and heated/cooled cupholders. $120,000. o_O
Wagoneer is not luxury. This is the one they can use.
Also, if what Cadillac is working on for Escalade V-sport turn out to be true, then GW can also come with a TRX engine.
 

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I don’t think there’s a standard definition for “trail rated” though….I don’t think Renegade can make it through the Rubicon test…not sure about Compass. Correct me if I’m wrong. I think Mike Manley fought to keep certain standards, but I’m not so sure there Is a standard definition for trail rated.

Edit: here’s a MT article that may shed some light upon it:


And here’s where Manley said he’s not sure Renegade could make it through the Rubicon:

 

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With regard to Wagoneer vs Expedition, take great care is discerning "Trail Rated" from "Off Road capable". I would surmise just based on the specs of the Wagoneer it is quite capable off road. However, what Jeep is actually saying when they won't trail rate it is that Trail Rated is based on the Rubicon course they set up, and generally speaking vehicles the size of Wagoneer are not a good fit for those trails.

Many trails have maximum widths, and anything over the width will get absolutely destroyed or stuck without destroying the trail. Running trails is something you are supposed to do responsibly and intelligently, not plow through like a madman.

And hmmm, would you look at that, Wagoneer offers on "Advanced All-Terrain Group" option on the series 2 as a $2,295 option. That option package is more than enough to compete (or beat) the Expedition.

I enjoy fun banter between companies like this, however I don't think Jeep is resting on their laurels with regard to the Timberline, it already had a package ready before this was revealed.
Wasn’t Ram Rebel already tested on the trail??
Here’s an article from our own Allpar:

 
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I don’t think there’s a standard definition for “trail rated” though….I don’t think Renegade can make it through the Rubicon test…not sure about Compass. Correct me if I’m wrong. I think Mike Manley fought to keep certain standards, but I’m not so sure there Is a standard definition for trail rated.

Edit: here’s a MT article that may shed some light upon it:

These are all excuses similar to when they said a HEMI can’t fit in the Wrangler and pass the federal requirements.

And here’s where Manley said he’s not sure Renegade could make it through the Rubicon:

Yet Renegade has the Trail-Rated badge
 
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These are all excuses similar to when they said a HEMI can’t fit in the Wrangler and pass the federal requirements.


Yet Renegade has the Trail-Rated badge
Yup, it does have the badge. Thats why I say I don’t think it refers necessarily to the Rubicon test.

But I agree, these are just excuses. If they want to do a thing, they can do it. And competition may force their hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
The Trail Rated badge is not an absolute measure of capability. Each vehicle with the Trail Rated badge has different capabilities...different water fording depth, different articulation, etc.

Trail Rated has nothing to do with the Rubicon, which is a much higher standard that the Wrangler, Cherokee and new Grand Cherokee Trailhawk have traversed. I do not think any other current Jeep product has made it.
 

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And the ability to modify the vehicle is another important aspect. If ford could do it, jeep better do it too.


isn’t beautiful :) .. just add a lift kit and it will be a monster

what did happen to this? There were many rumors about Jeep Wagoneer and Next Grand Cherokee may Get "Desert Rated" Models
 

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Ford's Expedition has always played second fiddle to Tahoe/Suburban. This brings a new awareness to their vehicle. Will it work? I wouldn't bet against Ford. While Jeep takes a snails pace to introduce new vehicles, Ford is striking while their iron is red hot.
 

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Good lord, some people act like the engineers are sitting there stumped at how to build in capability. A business case needs to be approved for EVERYTHING. Rightly or wrongly, it’s MANAGEMENT that hasn’t green lit a Trail Rated Wagoneer be it for capital expense, market positioning, lack of margin, whatever.

And for good measure, it was predicted long ago on here that when Jeep created the self imposed Trail Rated badge, the rating would become convoluted and susceptible to any competitors made up “off road” package. The name “Jeep” used to be good enough to imply capability, even on 2WD versions.
 

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They cannot convert Wagoneer to trail rating without diluting the trail rating system, period. They made that clear when they first introduced trail rating. Make a vehicle that wide and it is not trail rated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
They cannot convert Wagoneer to trail rating without diluting the trail rating system, period. They made that clear when they first introduced trail rating. Make a vehicle that wide and it is not trail rated.
There should not be any "conversion". Trail rating should have been built-in as they do with the Grand Cherokee.

Width is not one of the criteria.

Articulation
Maneuverability
Traction
Ground Clearance
Water Fording

We can argue that it is maneuverability that may hold the Wagoneers back. But since there is no baseline criteria, it can be anything. Providing the Wagoneer can offer the other aspects (articulation, traction, ground clearance and water fording) superior to any other offering on the market, it could have a Trail Rated badge.

I just think that, once again, they are missing who are their customers. While the vast majority of Wagoneer buyers will not care about a Trail rated badge, it is still a Jeep (though there is no Jeep badge on the vehicle).
 
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