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Vaguely badass...
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Discussion Starter #1
(Split from the "new 200 in plain view" thread. We start by talking about Marchionne's chutzpuh, and segue into a discussion of the Jeep Grand Wagoneer replacing the Durango. We join the thread already in progress...)

Recall that Marchionne did, in fact, take the blame for the poor Dart launch - he felt that with fuel economy as a big deal, consumers would flock to the DDCT and the 1.4L turbo - "I was going to teach the US how to drive efficiently and failed." And he took the blame because the 9-speed wasn't ready - the launch was pretty locked in, so he had to ship something.

Now with the Cherokee - and the delays - you can see he's not willing to make that mistake again.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
Recall that Marchionne did, in fact, take the blame for the poor Dart launch - he felt that with fuel economy as a big deal, consumers would flock to the DDCT and the 1.4L turbo - "I was going to teach the US how to drive efficiently and failed." And he took the blame because the 9-speed wasn't ready - the launch was pretty locked in, so he had to ship something.

Now with the Cherokee - and the delays - you can see he's not willing to make that mistake again.
He can't afford to make that mistake again. Dart has never fully recovered.
Yes he made that statement that he took responsibility, he also has a habit of firing the folks who fail to turn his unrealistic goals into reality, when he himself can't.
My biggest heartburn with him is his arrogance.
He is going to "teach" America now to drive efficiently?
He is going to "teach" Jeepers what they should be driving
His dismissiveness of solid axles, tried and true Jeep platforms, and other items, because he thinks he knows better, goes against the grain of decades of proven success.
If he wanted to transform American autos into bland, world cars, he should have purchased Ford.
 

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MoparNorm said:
Possibly, but isn't that moniker a choice?
Nearly every insider uses it. Many with way more than 50 posts?
If my assumption is wrong, I apologize.
Thank you for that clarification. We are actually in agreement on many of those items.
The breakdown for 'Part of the community' starts at 50 and is changed to 'Active' when the member reaches 225. From there it changes to 'Unusually Active' at 1000 posts.
 

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Bob ONeill said:
The breakdown for 'Part of the community' starts at 50 and is changed to 'Active' when the member reaches 225. From there it changes to 'Unusually Active' at 1000 posts.
I acknowledged that, it is also possible to customize that moniker, as many have done.
It's the reason I qualified my post by asking the poster, if he was in fact an employee of Chrysler.
Which he later replied that he was not.
 

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Vaguely badass...
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Discussion Starter #5
Good - we're all on the same page now. Carry on.

MoparNorm said:
If he wanted to transform American autos into bland, world cars, he should have purchased Ford.
Then he'd have nothing to do all day. :lol:

I won't argue about his arrogance, but I suspect some of his comments are intended as "dry wit commentary."

I've heard tell of at least one employee that told him what he thought of his ways and to "relocate his position of employment to a location in which the energy of the Sun does not reach."
 

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MoparNorm said:
He can't afford to make that mistake again. Dart has never fully recovered.
Yes he made that statement that he took responsibility, he also has a habit of firing the folks who fail to turn his unrealistic goals into reality, when he himself can't.
My biggest heartburn with him is his arrogance.
He is going to "teach" America now to drive efficiently?
He is going to "teach" Jeepers what they should be driving
His dismissiveness of solid axles, tried and true Jeep platforms, and other items, because he thinks he knows better, goes against the grain of decades of proven success.
If he wanted to transform American autos into bland, world cars, he should have purchased Ford.
You forgot how Marchionne insulted Chrysler owners by bashing past products.
 

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Mopar-nac The Moderator
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Erik Latranyi said:
You forgot how Marchionne insulted Chrysler owners by bashing past products.
That really was frustrating, and still is.

Mike
 

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Vaguely badass...
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Discussion Starter #8
"That car was unfit for human consumption," Marchionne said of the Commander. "We sold some. But I don't know why people bought them."
I would love to ask him more about this.

Speaking to reporters (back in 2011) Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne confirmed what many have already guessed…that he wants Jeep to own the SUV market in Chrysler’s portfolio of automotive brands.

“Why would any brand (in the new Chrysler showrooms) but Jeep have an SUV?” he asked rhetorically, according to Edmunds Auto Observer.

“Jeep needs to define the SUV market market and it needs to own it,” he said.

Marchionne added that had he been in charge when the Durango was being developed it would have been sold as a Jeep. “If I had been here,” Marchionne said, “the Durango would have been a Grand Wagoneer – which we will bring back to the marketplace.”


Marchionne went on to say that he believes every Jeep model should have a trail rated version even though many customers probably won’t use the Jeep’s full off-road ability. “Every car has to be able to offer a Trail-Rated version,” Marchionne said

“I can’t have a Mickey Mouse Jeep,” he added.
 

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Stratuscaster said:
I would love to ask him more about this.
Yep I cant believe the Liberty wouldnt be as good with a major overhaul!
 

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Stratuscaster said:
I would love to ask him more about this.
The problem with this is that by making all SUV's Jeeps and then trying to push Jeep into becoming a premium brand, you are pushing the SUV's out of the price range of the people that want to buy them.

If they would have brought out the Durango as rhe Wagoneer just as Marchione said, I'd wager that about half of the Durango owners I know of from the forums I frequent would not be able to afford it if it was sold in the rumored 50-60 grand price range.

That is why the Dodge exists. Unless your gonna have a stripper or base model, but who wants a base model?

I just dont want the Jeep brand to turn into something like Harley Davidson, where just because a T shirt has their logo on it, they think they can sell it for $40, when it is still just a T-shirt.
 

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While I agree with his thought, how he expressed it could have been better.

He included the Caliber in a comment too...I don't disagree. I would have loved to see them do an exterior refresh on it too instead of kill it off.
 

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Vaguely badass...
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Discussion Starter #12
Do some digging - who is Jeep looking to put the upcoming Grand Wagoneer against? Cadillac Escalade, Lexus LX, and Mercedes GL to name 3.

There's nothing to suggest that the upper-end versions of Jeep products would not also be targets to upper-end brands in their respective categories.
 

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Vaguely badass...
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Discussion Starter #13
SUNBURNTsnype said:
The problem with this is that by making all SUV's Jeeps and then trying to push Jeep into becoming a premium brand, you are pushing the SUV's out of the price range of the people that want to buy them.
Which I would agree with, if that were indeed the case.

I don't see a push to make Jeep a "premium brand." Rather, like most brands, there are models with more premium trim/packaged. Grand Wagoneer would be an exception, as it looks that it will be pretty loaded from the start.

How many people would want to proclaim that they bought a "base" Escalade?

SUNBURNTsnype said:
I just dont want the Jeep brand to turn into something like Harley Davidson, where just because a T shirt has their logo on it, they think they can sell it for $40, when it is still just a T-shirt.
That boat may have left the dock already.
 

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SUNBURNTsnype said:
The problem with this is that by making all SUV's Jeeps and then trying to push Jeep into becoming a premium brand, you are pushing the SUV's out of the price range of the people that want to buy them.
>snip<
That is why the Dodge exists. Unless your gonna have a stripper or base model, but who wants a base model?
Perhaps we need to move the Durango over to the Ram brand--sell it as a work vehicle rather than a family vehicle?
 

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Stratuscaster said:
Recall that Marchionne did, in fact, take the blame for the poor Dart launch - he felt that with fuel economy as a big deal, consumers would flock to the DDCT and the 1.4L turbo - "I was going to teach the US how to drive efficiently and failed." And he took the blame because the 9-speed wasn't ready - the launch was pretty locked in, so he had to ship something.
MoparNorm said:
He is going to "teach" America now to drive efficiently?
>he didn't say it quite that wayhe never said that at all
 

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Commander... needed seats not made of leather-covered concrete.

Fiat 500 expenses weren't quite as high as you might think since many of the changes reportedly ended up in the next generation European version, which will be a universal car. So while it was moderately expensive, the costs are spread across three countries' sales (Mexico and Canada though neither accounts for much in the way of F500 sales), the number of cars sold is far below expectations, and the engineering costs will be recouped in the next version. Most were probably in adapting the engines to work with American gasoline and oil formulations (particularly the latter) which is a long term investment since the next F500 will also use that engine.

I won't argue about his arrogance, but I suspect some of his comments are intended as "dry wit commentary."
Yes, and some are probably the result of fatigue.
 

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Vaguely badass...
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Discussion Starter #17
freshforged said:
its bad enough to take words out of context but to then apply that unintended meaning to other, unrelated fields is the basest form of straw-man argument.
I'll take heat because I mis-quoted Marchionne in that regard in the first place.

Here's the correct quote:
Chrysler-Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne took a bullet for the decision to go with a dual-clutch autobox. He said he was responsible for the company’s failure to meet the rather-pedestrian expectations of domestic compact car buyers.

“I decided I was going to put a European transmission into the car because I was going to try to teach Americans how to get (better) fuel mileage,” Marchionne told Automotive News.
 

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Dave said:
Commander... needed seats not made of leather-covered concrete.

Fiat 500 expenses weren't quite as high as you might think since many of the changes reportedly ended up in the next generation European version, which will be a universal car. So while it was moderately expensive, the costs are spread across three countries' sales (Mexico and Canada though neither accounts for much in the way of F500 sales), the number of cars sold is far below expectations, and the engineering costs will be recouped in the next version. Most were probably in adapting the engines to work with American gasoline and oil formulations (particularly the latter) which is a long term investment since the next F500 will also use that engine.

Yes, and some are probably the result of fatigue.
That's not fair to concrete ;)



I only sat in a Commander once, so I can't actually comment
 

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Dave said:
Commander... needed seats not made of leather-covered concrete.

Fiat 500 expenses weren't quite as high as you might think since many of the changes reportedly ended up in the next generation European version, which will be a universal car. So while it was moderately expensive, the costs are spread across three countries' sales (Mexico and Canada though neither accounts for much in the way of F500 sales), the number of cars sold is far below expectations, and the engineering costs will be recouped in the next version. Most were probably in adapting the engines to work with American gasoline and oil formulations (particularly the latter) which is a long term investment since the next F500 will also use that engine.

Yes, and some are probably the result of fatigue.
I actually thought the Commander was a comfortable vehicle, if you were sitting up front. The second/third row was awful and the gas mileage was absolutely horrendous, but it did ride well imo.
 

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JRS200x said:
I actually thought the Commander was a comfortable vehicle, if you were sitting up front. The second/third row was awful and the gas mileage was absolutely horrendous, but it did ride well imo.
Yeah actually looked at the Commander but was in the Market for a 3 row vehicle. The 3rd row was not good not good at all. Really was not even practical so when you consider that your into either another vehicle or a GC

But confusing OT considering the thread is a 200 thread.
 
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