A new Jeep from Paris? They should call it the Croissant!
What next, a new Alfa Romeo from Brooklyn...?
What next, a new Alfa Romeo from Brooklyn...?
Jeep to launch electric Land Rover Defender rival by 2025 (Recon)
From the article:
The Recon will sit alongside the Wrangler, confirmed Jeep’s European boss, Antonella Bruno, but the two cars will have slightly different sizes and positions in the range.
“The Recon in Europe will be a white-space car,” said Bruno. “It’s a unique car, very boxy and very capable. It will sit in a lower part of the [market] segment to the Wrangler.”
Full article here:
Jeep to launch electric Land Rover Defender rival by 2025 | Autocar
The Recon will sit alongside the Wrangler, confirmed Jeep’s European boss, Antonella Bruno, but the two cars will have slightly different sizes and positions in the range.
“The Recon in Europe will be a white-space car,” said Bruno. “It’s a unique car, very boxy and very capable. It will sit in a lower part of the [market] segment to the Wrangler.”
Full article here:
Jeep to launch electric Land Rover Defender rival by 2025 | Autocar
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Not sure I should laugh or cry...You forget that in 2 years, the Wrangler will be another $10k more expensive, so, at $50k, the Recon will be slotted below with comparable equipment.
For looks. Buyers expect Jeeps to be rugged, and nothing looks more rugged than a box on wheels.I'm really starting to wonder why does the Recon need to be shaped the way it is if its only BEV? Is that a massive frunk in the front of that thing?
If you guys sense my dry skepticism on this thread, is because I am burned out by Jeep at the moment.
Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my Jeep Wrangler. But I am scared to set foot at a Jeep dealership. Between the ridiculous prices, the widespread incompetence of the sales and service staffs, and the arrogant indifference from Stellantis, I look at these new vehicles Jeep keeps throwing at us and all I can do is scratch my head.
For decades Jeep stood for ruggedness, simplicity, capability, fun and adventure. Modern Wranglers —and Gladiators— are already getting too complex to fit the first two-and-a-half of those words.
The rest of the Jeep lineup doesn’t speak to me, and these newer models coming out of Europe could have any badge on them if you removed the boxy styling.
I’m not against EVs. In fact, my next vehicle will likely have some sort of electrified powertrain. But I doubt it will be from Jeep.
Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my Jeep Wrangler. But I am scared to set foot at a Jeep dealership. Between the ridiculous prices, the widespread incompetence of the sales and service staffs, and the arrogant indifference from Stellantis, I look at these new vehicles Jeep keeps throwing at us and all I can do is scratch my head.
For decades Jeep stood for ruggedness, simplicity, capability, fun and adventure. Modern Wranglers —and Gladiators— are already getting too complex to fit the first two-and-a-half of those words.
The rest of the Jeep lineup doesn’t speak to me, and these newer models coming out of Europe could have any badge on them if you removed the boxy styling.
I’m not against EVs. In fact, my next vehicle will likely have some sort of electrified powertrain. But I doubt it will be from Jeep.
Yup. To add insult to injury, Jeep is about to recall 70,000 manual transmission JLs, which is roughly half of all manual transmission JLs sold so far.That’s a combo that sounds good on paper, but don’t do great in real life. Unless the one I had was an anomaly, the 3.6 manual tune (which limits power to protect a weak clutch assembly from overheating) resulted in inconsistent and very peaky engine output. After the dealer confined all software was up to date and nothing changed, I used CarMax’s 30 day return policy to be rid of it and get an automatic.
They still don't have a fix. But problems with that transmission/clutch setup are never-ending.
According to Jeep.com, a 2023 Wrangler 2-door Sport S with a hardtop and 8-speed automatic transmission is $43,000.You can still buy a pretty basic wrangler for not so bad price. Low to mid 30s. In fact, 6 speed pentastar with rear LSD would be a fun package in my view.
Is that a not-so bad price? I guess. Seems like a lot of money for a pretty basic Wrangler. Add to that Jeep's "priceless" dealer service, and the value proposition looks even more questionable.
In any event, this Recon is likely to start at $70,000 by the time it arrives here. That is a non-starter with me.
I know you suggested that. But that’s not a viable option to many Wrangler buyers...between JL’s never-ending clutch issues and the inherent limitations of the soft top.I suggested a sport with 6 speed and maybe the anti-spin diff "rear lsd" as the only option. That would hit the mid 30s.
Yes, FCA pushed the geometry of JL’s steering to its very limit. Which is now causing all types death wobble-like symptoms left and right. I had it happen to me; thankfully only once.
One has to wonder where was Jeep engineering prowess when JL was being developed...? Was Marchionne calling the shots on this as well...?
One has to wonder where was Jeep engineering prowess when JL was being developed...? Was Marchionne calling the shots on this as well...?
Speaking of FCA, when JL first came out, there were several features that struck me as last-minute decisions:
Was the swap to electric steering assist a last-minute decision as well?
Let’s not forget JL’s launch was delayed six months...
- The use of high fenders on Rubicons to allow for 35-inch tires without the need for a lift. Mopar had been offering the high fenders as accessories on JK. High fenders are the “lazy man’s” way of fitting larger tires. Putting them standard on JL Rubicon smacked of a last-minute attempt to show “improved capability.”
- JLs sit higher than JKs. My JL Sahara came with the same amount of ground clearance as my JK Rubicon Recon. Again, considering that JL’s suspension is based on JK’s, that seemed like a risky move. No wonder JL’s steering is all over the place. Literally.
Was the swap to electric steering assist a last-minute decision as well?
Let’s not forget JL’s launch was delayed six months...
Perhaps, but adding high fenders to one of the trim levels doesn’t seem like the result of a thorough redesign, which JL was supposed to be.Been way too long since Allpar had a good ol’ technical suspension discussion!
I wouldn’t say high fenders are a bad way to increase tire size and could be the “better” method because it keeps the original suspension geometry intact. However, the larger tire and it’s weight are likely to overwhelm what the OEM components can handle which leads to premature wear, death wobble or simple catastrophic failure. A “heavy duty” aftermarket may look impressive enough to handle the weight but the geometry is obviously a mess leading to the same terrible handling/premature wear and tear.
The higher sitting body may have raised the center of gravity which again could put the JL suspension at the extreme edge of its design.
It appears the JL design seems to have been a case of being just within tolerances, damn the consequences.
But therein lies the problem: JL was not a thorough redesign. FCA took JK’s underpinnings, added a new transmission, a new steering box, a complex dual-battery system, and a host of comfort creatures to be able to charge more money.
The rub is that now, when JL owners go in for warranty work with issues with the new steering or the dual batteries, they get the run around for months until the customer either gives up or starts buyback proceedings.
Ford had a talent drain of its own; much of which ended at Nissan when it relocated to Tennessee in the late 2000s. Two-thirds of the people I dealt with at Nissan N.A. were Ford ex-pats who, unfortunately, brought with them Ford’s dysfunctional culture.If there was a talent drain, it was probably because the JK was done 10 years before the JL. Plenty of time for people to say adios and move on. Ford seemed happy to take on the talent that Chrysler let go.
The Bronco rollout exposed into the open the fact that Ford’s Engineering, Manufacturing and Quality Control are run by a bunch of clowns. Just ask Jim Farley...
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