The new E-Segment Alfa CUV may actually come from Toluca!
Jeep to launch electric Land Rover Defender rival by 2025 (Recon)
From the article:
The Recon will sit alongside the Wrangler, confirmed Jeep’s European boss, Antonella Bruno, but the two cars will have slightly different sizes and positions in the range.
“The Recon in Europe will be a white-space car,” said Bruno. “It’s a unique car, very boxy and very capable. It will sit in a lower part of the [market] segment to the Wrangler.”
Full article here:
Jeep to launch electric Land Rover Defender rival by 2025 | Autocar
The Recon will sit alongside the Wrangler, confirmed Jeep’s European boss, Antonella Bruno, but the two cars will have slightly different sizes and positions in the range.
“The Recon in Europe will be a white-space car,” said Bruno. “It’s a unique car, very boxy and very capable. It will sit in a lower part of the [market] segment to the Wrangler.”
Full article here:
Jeep to launch electric Land Rover Defender rival by 2025 | Autocar
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You forget that in 2 years, the Wrangler will be another $10k more expensive, so, at $50k, the Recon will be slotted below with comparable equipment.Lower part of the segment? So it is smaller/cheaper? That's kind of what I was hoping for. Like something maybe around the size of the last Liberty.
Edit: Well Car&Driver says it'll start at $60k so that's running counter to what Autocar is saying. Starting at $60k is like the mid-to-high level of the Wrangler Market.
From Car&Driver:
View attachment 93584
I suspect Recon will be BEV only in EMEA and PHEV/BEV in North America.They better if they want to sell more then three of them.
Since it is believed the Recon will be built in Toluca, maybe it should have the Mexican flag!The most important question: will this new Jeep still carry the American flag?
View attachment 93585
Or will Jeep slap the EU flag onto it...?
2028 according to some sources.When is the Wrangler getting redesigned?
Recon seems to be a placeholder until the Wrangler Magneto can arrive. Wrangler 4xe is not available in RHD due to packaging. That is one area that needs to be resolved in the redesign.
Yes, when Avenger launched, it did not have the 4xe badging because it was FWD only.I had hoped that because they put the 4xe badge on the back of Recon that it might have a PHEV option, but I’m guessing now that 4xe is a catch-all badge for their electrified vehicles, and not just the hybrids. 🙁. I suppose that does make more sense though.
Then they showed the Avenger 4xe at the Paris Auto Show, but it is still a BEV.
Many people are so jaded by the last decade-plus of teases and rumors not materializing that we are in a "boy who cried wolf" situation.So are you just ignoring the plans for Chrysler and Dodge or what?
Let's be compassionate to them.
....but, but, but....the MARGINS! Look at their MARGINS!!!As an aside, it would not cost anything but time and money for Jeep to fix their manual transmission problems.
Been way too long since Allpar had a good ol’ technical suspension discussion!
I wouldn’t say high fenders are a bad way to increase tire size and could be the “better” method because it keeps the original suspension geometry intact. However, the larger tire and it’s weight are likely to overwhelm what the OEM components can handle which leads to premature wear, death wobble or simple catastrophic failure. A “heavy duty” aftermarket may look impressive enough to handle the weight but the geometry is obviously a mess leading to the same terrible handling/premature wear and tear.
The higher sitting body may have raised the center of gravity which again could put the JL suspension at the extreme edge of its design.
It appears the JL design seems to have been a case of being just within tolerances, damn the consequences.
What everyone keeps missing in this discussion is that the "Death Wobble" (or whatever anyone wants to call it) is happening on stock JLs with under 10k miles.
That is absolutely unacceptable for a $50k vehicle.
Also, JL are being bought back, given a new stabilizer and re-sold as certified pre-owned. Customers would never know unless they reside in a state that requires disclosure of a buyback vehicle.
It is the typical FCA quality issue.....it is intermittent and extremely difficult to diagnose from the outside looking in.I wouldn’t say anyone is missing that. My suspicion is at the extreme edge of tolerance lends itself to a higher and earlier failure rate. It’s the old 60% of the time, it works every time.
Think of the 9-speed transmission and the multiple software flashes, hardware changes, etc before they finally got it mostly corrected even though it does not deliver the fuel economy increase that the 8-speed ZF design delivered for RWD vehicles and the shift quality is still unsatisfactory.
The Hyundai 8-speed in the Compass with the 2.0T is delivering a better experience because it was not cheapened by FCA engineers.
The problems that Land Rover and Honda experienced were quickly corrected as ZF was building those transmissions for them.To be fair, I'm not sure if you can chalk up the 9-speed's issues to FCA cheapening the transmission. The ZF 9-speed had the exact same issues in Land Rover and Honda/Acura products too. As mentioned before, Volvo straight up rejected the transmission after evaluating it and went for the Aisin 8-speed.
FCA bought the license from ZF so they could manufacture it themselves. They cheapened parts and did the dog-clutch garbage for the AWD systems that led to so many problems.
The ZF fix did not work with the FCA built transmissions.
First, Honda did not build their own 9-speeds. ZF supplied them. FCA built their own under license.They weren’t quickly fixed though- I remember discussing this in many places when we were discussing it real time, such as here: Here come the new minivans (corrected). They had to deal with software updates that mitigated issues and then people buying their cars in late 2015 were reporting a significant improvement in overall behavior that were unmatched by the software-corrected units.
The timing of Honda receiving a fix and Marchionne proclaiming they’ve fixed the issues was way too close together to believe there wasn’t any contact between ZF and FCA. You can do a search on the LR and Honda forums to verify if you so choose.
I never said there was no contact between ZF and FCA. But FCA altered (cheapened) the ZF design for mass production. The dog clutches were not ZF and parts were found that could not hold up that were exclusive to FCA.
Finally, Marchionne's proclamations were as reliable as a politician's.
I never said there were no issues with the ZF manufactured 9-speeds. But ZF cleared up the problems before FCA cleared up theirs. Marchionne was just buying time and saw the potential warranty liability and killed the Chrysler 200.When did I say Honda built their own 9-speeds? All I'm saying is that not all of the 9-speed's issues were attributable to items that FCA cheapened, that much is clear. Hondas and Land Rovers needed to get transmissions replaced too due to the 9HP's poor design (plenty of talk about the dog clutches there as well) and even with the software and hardware changes things still aren't up to snuff for many. There's been class action lawsuits filed. They were set up to fail with that transmisson either way.
If a refresh is coming, I think they would wait until Easter Jeep Safari to unveil it.Yes I saw this rumor too.
I don't expect any significant change in the powertrain (except maybe all-electric) but lots of excuses for higher prices.
I expect more options in reaction to Bronco.
Is it possible that they make LED headlights standard?
$2000 cash on 2023 Wrangler 4xe already.
Stock Wranglers on public roads with no off-road history and less than 10k miles on the odometer.If custimers are experiencing death wobble on stock Wranglers, I’m suspecting it’s either a manufacturing issue or a parts issue. Or is it a user issue? How are they using their Wrangler? Are the ones who have experienced issues using their Wranglers more aggressively than others, and therefore require more frequent monitoring and maintenance? If it’s happening on street-only vehicles, then that’s more concerning I think.
For Wranglers that have been modified, did they upgrade their suspension parts to account for the added weight and different geometry of bigger tires & wheels? From skimming through the Bronco forums, I see people breaking tie rods because they lifted their vehicle & put on bigger tires & wheels without upgrading the supporting structures to accommodate them. It’s the same with Wranglers. One poster on a forum said “you wheel until something breaks and then you upgrade” (paraphrasing). Lol.
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