[Adventurer55]

The 9sp in my Compass rental so far has behaved okay. But it's nowhere near the 8sp in Grand Cherokee L. That is the best shifting auto I've ever owned in a Chrysler product. Nothing, not even the old Torqueflights come close.

 

[serpens]

It is the typical FCA quality issue.....it is intermittent and extremely difficult to diagnose from the outside looking in.

Think of the 9-speed transmission and the multiple software flashes, hardware changes, etc before they finally got it mostly corrected even though it does not deliver the fuel economy increase that the 8-speed ZF design delivered for RWD vehicles and the shift quality is still unsatisfactory.

The Hyundai 8-speed in the Compass with the 2.0T is delivering a better experience because it was not cheapened by FCA engineers.

To be fair, I'm not sure if you can chalk up the 9-speed's issues to FCA cheapening the transmission. The ZF 9-speed had the exact same issues in Land Rover and Honda/Acura products too. As mentioned before, Volvo straight up rejected the transmission after evaluating it and went for the Aisin 8-speed.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

To be fair, I'm not sure if you can chalk up the 9-speed's issues to FCA cheapening the transmission. The ZF 9-speed had the exact same issues in Land Rover and Honda/Acura products too. As mentioned before, Volvo straight up rejected the transmission after evaluating it and went for the Aisin 8-speed.

The problems that Land Rover and Honda experienced were quickly corrected as ZF was building those transmissions for them.

FCA bought the license from ZF so they could manufacture it themselves. They cheapened parts and did the dog-clutch garbage for the AWD systems that led to so many problems.

The ZF fix did not work with the FCA built transmissions.

 

[serpens]

The problems that Land Rover and Honda experienced were quickly corrected as ZF was building those transmissions for them.

FCA bought the license from ZF so they could manufacture it themselves. They cheapened parts and did the dog-clutch garbage for the AWD systems that led to so many problems.

The ZF fix did not work with the FCA built transmissions.

They weren’t quickly fixed though- I remember discussing this in many places when we were discussing it real time, such as here: Here come the new minivans (corrected). They had to deal with software updates that mitigated issues and then people buying their cars in late 2015 were reporting a significant improvement in overall behavior that were unmatched by the software-corrected units.

The timing of Honda receiving a fix and Marchionne proclaiming they’ve fixed the issues was way too close together to believe there wasn’t any contact between ZF and FCA. You can do a search on the LR and Honda forums to verify if you so choose.

 

[valiant67]

They weren’t quickly fixed though- I remember discussing this in many places when we were discussing it real time, such as here: Here come the new minivans (corrected)

The timing of Honda receiving a fix and Marchionne proclaiming they’ve fixed the issues was way too close together to believe there wasn’t any contact between ZF and FCA. You can do a search on the LR and Honda forums to verify if you so choose.

Having owned a 2018 Renegade and a 2018 Jeep Cherokee (both 4 cylinf=der, AWD) I can say the behavior was not fixed by then. Both of them, around the 24k mile mark, developed an occasional harsh downshift - much worse than the well publicized bump shift of the early A604. I wasn't worried about the transmission failing, but when you're driving through a parking lot and it downshifts so hard it feels like someone hit the car, there were still issues.
.

 

[serpens]

Having owned a 2018 Renegade and a 2018 Jeep Cherokee (both 4 cylinf=der, AWD) I can say the behavior was not fixed by then. Both of them, around the 24k mile mark, developed an occasional harsh downshift - much worse than the well publicized bump shift of the early A604. I wasn't worried about the transmission failing, but when you're driving through a parking lot and it downshifts so hard it feels like someone hit the car, there were still issues.
.

And those are issues people still had over at Honda. Notice I didn’t say the new units were perfect. There’s a reason Honda ditched the transmission as soon as they could for the 10 speed they designed themselves. This thread for the Odyssey was active into 2021: 2019 Transmission 9 Speed Known Issue - Not Admitted by.... I’m sure I can find more.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

They weren’t quickly fixed though- I remember discussing this in many places when we were discussing it real time, such as here: Here come the new minivans (corrected). They had to deal with software updates that mitigated issues and then people buying their cars in late 2015 were reporting a significant improvement in overall behavior that were unmatched by the software-corrected units.

The timing of Honda receiving a fix and Marchionne proclaiming they’ve fixed the issues was way too close together to believe there wasn’t any contact between ZF and FCA. You can do a search on the LR and Honda forums to verify if you so choose.

First, Honda did not build their own 9-speeds. ZF supplied them. FCA built their own under license.

I never said there was no contact between ZF and FCA. But FCA altered (cheapened) the ZF design for mass production. The dog clutches were not ZF and parts were found that could not hold up that were exclusive to FCA.

Finally, Marchionne's proclamations were as reliable as a politician's.

 

[serpens]

First, Honda did not build their own 9-speeds. ZF supplied them. FCA built their own under license.

I never said there was no contact between ZF and FCA. But FCA altered (cheapened) the ZF design for mass production. The dog clutches were not ZF and parts were found that could not hold up that were exclusive to FCA.

Finally, Marchionne's proclamations were as reliable as a politician's.

When did I say Honda built their own 9-speeds? All I'm saying is that not all of the 9-speed's issues were attributable to items that FCA cheapened, that much is clear. Hondas and Land Rovers needed to get transmissions replaced too due to the 9HP's poor design (plenty of talk about the dog clutches there as well) and even with the software and hardware changes things still aren't up to snuff for many. There's been class action lawsuits filed. They were set up to fail with that transmisson either way.

 

[GasAxe]

In the end, “quality” under FCA meant in most cases things work but for an unlucky percentage, you have a vehicle that has continuously frustrating issues or an outright lemon. Honestly, I can’t wait to ditch my current 2018 Ram Tradesman with its ongoing electronic issues that for over a year have proved elusive to diagnose and repair while getting worse. My 2012 Ram and 2018 and 2021 Durango’s were all relatively problem free (lost the water pump in my ‘12 at ~80k miles).

 

[serpens]

In the end, “quality” under FCA meant in most cases things work but for an unlucky percentage, you have a vehicle that has continuously frustrating issues or an outright lemon. Honestly, I can’t wait to ditch my current 2018 Ram Tradesman with its ongoing electronic issues that for over a year have proved elusive to diagnose and repair while getting worse. My 2012 Ram and 2018 and 2021 Durango’s were all relatively problem free (lost the water pump in my ‘12 at ~80k miles).

Now this I can agree with. I haven't had a FCA product in ages as a result. Trying my luck again with Maserati here soon...

 

[Erik Latranyi]

When did I say Honda built their own 9-speeds? All I'm saying is that not all of the 9-speed's issues were attributable to items that FCA cheapened, that much is clear. Hondas and Land Rovers needed to get transmissions replaced too due to the 9HP's poor design (plenty of talk about the dog clutches there as well) and even with the software and hardware changes things still aren't up to snuff for many. There's been class action lawsuits filed. They were set up to fail with that transmisson either way.

I never said there were no issues with the ZF manufactured 9-speeds. But ZF cleared up the problems before FCA cleared up theirs. Marchionne was just buying time and saw the potential warranty liability and killed the Chrysler 200.

 

[valiant67]

If one reads back through all the history, the Cherokee transmission issue was exacerbated by the AWD system which was not sourced from ZF.

 

[serpens]

I never said there were no issues with the ZF manufactured 9-speeds. But ZF cleared up the problems before FCA cleared up theirs. Marchionne was just buying time and saw the potential warranty liability and killed the Chrysler 200.

They didn’t, that’s my point! ZF still had issues even in late 2019 when they released another software update.

If one reads back through all the history, the Cherokee transmission issue was exacerbated by the AWD system which was not sourced from ZF.

No argument from me on that. I just reject the notion that the 9-speed’s issues rest solely on FCA’s feet with their modified version. For all the bad FCA did it cannot be ignored that the transmission design was bad from the start and ZF was still releasing updates to quell its behavior as late as end of year 2019.

 

[IronMike3406]

Having owned a 2018 Renegade and a 2018 Jeep Cherokee (both 4 cylinf=der, AWD) I can say the behavior was not fixed by then. Both of them, around the 24k mile mark, developed an occasional harsh downshift - much worse than the well publicized bump shift of the early A604. I wasn't worried about the transmission failing, but when you're driving through a parking lot and it downshifts so hard it feels like someone hit the car, there were still issues.
.

The only issue I've had with our 2018 Renegade was in extreme cold -10 degrees the 9spd didn't want to shift into gear at all....Even after using remote start for 10 min warmup the trans temp was 54 degrees so I just let it sit and idle for about 10 min and checked it again and it was about 88 degrees and off we went. That has been the only issue. I had a Chrysler 5th Ave that when it shifted into reverse it hit so hard I thought it would snap the ring gear or break a u joint.

 

[LouJC]

What’s frustrating to me as an old school DIY mechanic…..no one really NEEDS a 9 spd over complex transmission….a 5 or 6 spd auto is just fine!
and as far as death wobble when I bought my 98 Grand Cherokee I never heard of new live axle Jeeps having death wobble issues. There were well know mechanical issues (warped brake rotors, diff howl, clogged AC drains etc), but not death wobble. Just who is running this company?
Oh and about the horrible oil filter housing, I counted 5 oring s on the bottom of the housing and 4 seals for the oil cooler, in addition several casting plugs. 9 plus points of failure, even if the cap is never overtightened. A simple can filter, one. So answer me this engineers; how is THAT good engineering? They’re going backward with advanced engineering & alienating customers…..

 

[JKU12]

Rumors on the forums today about a refreshed 2024 Wrangler about to be announced. But they seem to be unsubstantiated for now.

 

[valiant67]

Rumors on the forums today about a refreshed 2024 Wrangler about to be announced. But they seem to be unsubstantiated for now.

Yes I saw this rumor too.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Yes I saw this rumor too.

If a refresh is coming, I think they would wait until Easter Jeep Safari to unveil it.

I don't expect any significant change in the powertrain (except maybe all-electric) but lots of excuses for higher prices.

I expect more options in reaction to Bronco.

 

[valiant67]

If a refresh is coming, I think they would wait until Easter Jeep Safari to unveil it.

I don't expect any significant change in the powertrain (except maybe all-electric) but lots of excuses for higher prices.

I expect more options in reaction to Bronco.

Supposedly it is showing in Dealer Connect. Dave has this:

Refreshed 2024 Wrangler JL on the way?

Someone claiming to be a salesman is claiming that a Jeep Wrangler refresh is coming soon. The basic design is the same, but the 2024 Wrangler is rumored to offer power seats, ventilated seats, new gauge cluster and UConnect with a larger 10-inch touch-screen. (2024 Jeeps are not shown below.)...

www.stellpower.com

 

[Zagnut27]

If a refresh is coming, I think they would wait until Easter Jeep Safari to unveil it.

I don't expect any significant change in the powertrain (except maybe all-electric) but lots of excuses for higher prices.

I expect more options in reaction to Bronco.

One of the commenters on a Bronco forum said “Bronco has been great for Jeepers”, or something like that.