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It will start slow and pick up then maintain for a little bit. But I don't think sales will be that much.

I hope they sell really well though.
 

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We had a long discussion about 10 years ago when Marchionne first talked about reviving the Grand Wagoneer.

It is clear that GM owns this segment and everyone who has tried to break into it has failed to take any significant share from the GM triplets.

Since Grand Wagoneer is only going to be sold in the long wheelbase version (Suburban/Yukon XL size) it is aimed at an even smaller share of this BOF full size SUV market.

Ignoring 2020:
Suburban sales have averaged about 50k-60k per year.
Yukon XL sells about 30k-40k per year.
Escalade ESV sells about 10k-15k per year.

Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer are aimed at Yukon/Escalade more than Suburban. You are looking at a total market of 50k-60k per year.

That is not much volume to take a piece from.
 

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We had a long discussion about 10 years ago when Marchionne first talked about reviving the Grand Wagoneer.

It is clear that GM owns this segment and everyone who has tried to break into it has failed to take any significant share from the GM triplets.

Since Grand Wagoneer is only going to be sold in the long wheelbase version (Suburban/Yukon XL size) it is aimed at an even smaller share of this BOF full size SUV market.

Ignoring 2020:
Suburban sales have averaged about 50k-60k per year.
Yukon XL sells about 30k-40k per year.
Escalade ESV sells about 10k-15k per year.

Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer are aimed at Yukon/Escalade more than Suburban. You are looking at a total market of 50k-60k per year.

That is not much volume to take a piece from.
Yeah, but it’s all about the margins! Amirite??!! :LOL:
 

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It'll be interesting to see how they handle their intro into the segment. To be fair, when Ram had such a low percentage of truck sales, they didn't look for much to happen to them at the time either.
But Ram broke into the pickup sales by being bold with the big-rig styling and the ergonomics inside that beat everyone.

The Grand Wagoneer will have lots of cool tech, but the exterior styling is not groundbreaking...it is safe.

Perhaps that is what will work in this segment.....but it did not work for Ford....and they were not shooting for the luxury end of this segment....they tried to come in at the basic level where most units are sold.
 
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There are but so many people who are a) looking for a vehicle of that size, and b) can afford it new. Perhaps people can get into them with a lease which could make them more affordable. For me, these land yachts won’t fit in my garage at work, and my wife would never be comfortable driving one. Our Explorer is about as big a vehicle as I think we can get away with...so the 3-row GC would’ve been a good fit had it arrived in time.

My wife’s younger sister just got a new Tahoe. I have no idea how a) she can afford it (bought new, not leased), and b) how she can drive it, she’s only 4’11. She probably needs phone books to sit on and leg extenders to reach the pedals. Lol.
 

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FCA, now Stellantis, has pretty much gone the limit with the Grand Cherokee. Most of them are being sold with high options and $45-60k price tags. So it's a natural progression to give those who want even more luxury/status/room/capability in Jeep another higher option. With Jeep sales tripling in the last decade, I believe it will sell well enough for 30k orders between 2 sizes. Plus, they will put the Durango on this platform soon. And that should bring down the break even point.
 

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FCA, now Stellantis, has pretty much gone the limit with the Grand Cherokee. Most of them are being sold with high options and $45-60k price tags. So it's a natural progression to give those who want even more luxury/status/room/capability in Jeep another higher option. With Jeep sales tripling in the last decade, I believe it will sell well enough for 30k orders between 2 sizes. Plus, they will put the Durango on this platform soon. And that should bring down the break even point.
The Grand Cherokee L makes sense for those who want a 3-row as it has competition on the luxury end.

But other than Cadillac, there are no large, luxury BOF SUVs out there from Land Rover, Porsche or others.

Jeep sales may have tripled, but it was done by expanding the lineup, not increasing sales of existing models.

Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer is only one size right now.

Future sizes of Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer and moving Durango to BOF are uncertain.
 
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Ram in 1994 had one thing going for it that Grand Wagoneer does not. Cummins. Yes that only affected 2500/3500 sales but it was a pretty big deal.
Oddly the GM big SUVs lost their HD versions. I always thought a HD 2500 Ram based SUV with a Cummins motor would be a draw..
 

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Dodge Ram in 1994... was not Dodge Ram in 1993. In 1993, they only had the Cummins. In 1994, they had a revolutionary truck—the first truly driver-friendly truck out there. It was also better than the Chevy and Ford on nearly every measure.
 

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Ram in 1994 had one thing going for it that Grand Wagoneer does not. Cummins. Yes that only affected 2500/3500 sales but it was a pretty big deal.
Oddly the GM big SUVs lost their HD versions. I always thought a HD 2500 Ram based SUV with a Cummins motor would be a draw..
I heard GM's been tossing the idea of another HD Suburban.
 

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We had a long discussion about 10 years ago when Marchionne first talked about reviving the Grand Wagoneer.

It is clear that GM owns this segment and everyone who has tried to break into it has failed to take any significant share from the GM triplets.

Since Grand Wagoneer is only going to be sold in the long wheelbase version (Suburban/Yukon XL size) it is aimed at an even smaller share of this BOF full size SUV market.

Ignoring 2020:
Suburban sales have averaged about 50k-60k per year.
Yukon XL sells about 30k-40k per year.
Escalade ESV sells about 10k-15k per year.

Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer are aimed at Yukon/Escalade more than Suburban. You are looking at a total market of 50k-60k per year.

That is not much volume to take a piece from.
This was already confirmed to be 'short' wheelbase that was previewed, with long wheelbase of both Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer
 

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The Grand Cherokee L makes sense for those who want a 3-row as it has competition on the luxury end.

But other than Cadillac, there are no large, luxury BOF SUVs out there from Land Rover, Porsche or others.

Jeep sales may have tripled, but it was done by expanding the lineup, not increasing sales of existing models.

Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer is only one size right now.

Future sizes of Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer and moving Durango to BOF are uncertain.
It's been confirmed that there will be SWB and LWB variants of the Wagoneer.
 

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Without being too specific on the prices because I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say...

Target average sales price of Wagoneer is low $70k range. Target average sales price of Grand Wagoneer is mid-to-high $90k range.

This came straight from Stellantis.
 

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The Grand Cherokee L makes sense for those who want a 3-row as it has competition on the luxury end.

But other than Cadillac, there are no large, luxury BOF SUVs out there from Land Rover, Porsche or others.

Jeep sales may have tripled, but it was done by expanding the lineup, not increasing sales of existing models.

Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer is only one size right now.

Future sizes of Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer and moving Durango to BOF are uncertain.
Just a note- we can't just look at BOF SUVs as the only ones playing in this arena. The whole reason Mercedes created the GL in the mid 2000s is because their customers were saying they were buying Escalades because Benz didn't have anything for them. The Escalade does get cross-shopped with large Euro SUVs like the Benz GLS and BMW X7. Both the GLE and X5 have optional 3rd rows as well but that's not a big focus for them.

I personally agree that the Grand Wagoneer/Wagoneer is styled too conservatively and won't be a sales leader. At the end of the day if the venture is profitable then I suppose it doesn't matter much. Ford isn't unhappy with the profits the Expedition/Navigator have been bringing in.
 
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