Sad that they are having these issues, but those welds are absolutely inexcusable. This is why you should never buy year one on a new platform vehicle. That being said, we have a 2011 Durango R/T, with admittedly minimal issues.

 

Zinc oxide fumes produced by welding on galvanized steel are incredibly toxic. The zinc can also compromise the weld leading to poor penetration of the weld and porosity (both things that have been observed on these poor JL trackbar welds).

Yes, it is possible to weld galvanized. No, FCA's supplier wasn't doing it properly and FCA as a whole was clearly failing to inspect the frames correctly.

If they can't get it right... they should be plating the frames after welding the brackets, but hopefully they can get the processes right.

 

I worked at Superior Coach years ago and the entire bus body and structure was galvanized steel. We had no problems with welds.

Lima, Ohio plant?

 

Yes. I was an engineer there before the place closed. Then went to work on the M1 Abrams Tank at the Lima Tank Plant.

 

Those pictures show extremely poor welds in a variety of ways. The welds on the track bar show signs of being welded too fast AND not enough current. That yields poor penetration, and the very irregular and lumpy weld bead. The little holes are gas bubbles from impurities and contaminants getting trapped inside the weld. They're likely either welding very dirty steel, or have issues with their shielding gas. You can get similar porosity from welding galvanized steel, but I really doubt they are doing that.

You can weld galvanized steel, but it doesn't really make sense for a variety of reasons. You need to slow down your welding pace, and take great care to ensure all the vaporized zinc leaves the weld puddle before it solidifies - otherwise you end up with porosity and trapped zinc. Directly welding onto galvanized areas also destroys the zinc coating - defeating the purpose of galvanization. All the welded joints, and steel around the welded joints would no longer be protected. Usually you do all your welding, and then get the frame electroplated or hot dip galvanized.

 

Those who find nothing wrong with the steering could easily be buyers who know how Wrangler steering is supposed to feel. On the other hand, those who find the same steering "awful" could be those new buyers FCA wanted to attract, but who find JL's handling characteristics completely inappropriate for a $50,000+ purchase.

Just to clarify, one of the affected owners surmised that one side of the track bar weld point was not actually joined to the frame, leaving a gap that would flex depending on the forces at play. This would definitely cause an owner to recognize that something was not quite right with the steering.

I hope FCA is taking this seriously enough to follow up with customers and address it early on.

For what it's worth, both of the affected owners that I personally read about in that forum said that their dealers jumped on it, and were immediately working with Corporate to determine a fix and identify any systemic issues. Furthermore, "Jeep Cares" (FCA social media rep) was participating in the thread as well.

 

Thanks for sharing. As I recall in the early 70s there used to be a few new Dodge school bus chassis sitting there waiting for their new bus bodies.

 

This whole problem comes down to out sourcing, save a few bucks and loose your reputation. It's not just FCA the whole industry does it, at least in the USA. This short term thinking makes me sick.

 

And it doesn't just exist in manufacturing.
I used to work at a major hospital/clinic HMO provider.
They had almost everything inside, print shop, painters, cabinet shop, housekeeping, etc.
After they outsourced all of the support areas it really started to show.
The interiors of the buildings quickly took on a run down appearance.

 

Sorry, I've been away since I posted this.

I contacted Jeep yesterday to inquire about this issue, and also the issue of horrible handling/steering that myself and many other JL owners are experiencing. I was told that "there are no TSBs or recalls at this time, and we have not been made aware of the issues you describe". I guess I should have expected that response.

I spent some more time going over my welds visually and they don't actually seem as bad as the photos in this thread show on other JLs. Mine was built early February, and does not have any markings on it from manual inspection at the plant. I will continue to watch this topic closely. Issues on a brand new model are common, especially for FCA, but when it comes to poor welds and handling issues clearly that's a major safety concern.

 

I was told that "there are no TSBs or recalls at this time, and we have not been made aware of the issues you describe". I guess I should have expected that response.

That’s code speak for “Can’t you see we are busy selling left-and-right and overcharging customers? Go away!”

I wonder where they get that attitude from...?

 

If the NHTSA has to get involved because someone gets killed due to the steering issues or crappy welds, then FCA is going to care very quickly. They’re going to be made to, they won’t have a choice. Do these people ever learn, are they oblivious, or are they so arrogant that they just don’t care? I’m not sure what’s worse.

 

Haha you all think FCA only has start up issues? RICH

It’s complicated...... start ups are complicated. Earlier issues are found and corrected the better

Not to excuse the issue being discussed here, but I want to second this. My best friend bought a 2018 Honda Accord in November. By the time March came around the starter, alternator and horn relay were dying. The dealer service department ordered new parts and... the replacement alternator was faulty so they had to order another. Very weird. Granted that isn't the same as bad welds which is horrible, but first years are sticky sometimes.

 

Indeed.

But I bet that Honda dealer didn’t reply with “We don’t have a TSB yet. Come back when we do. Now go away!”

Every automaker has issues. Ultimately it is how many of your customers experience one, vs how many of your competitors’ customers experience one. And how your dealers treat them.

 

I bet that jeep is looking into it and it's just someone you talked to that has no idea. The average person you talk to has zero idea what is going on behind them, they only know what they were taught

 

Imagine that. All roads keep leading back to how customers are being treated when they have an issue.

 

Wide discrepancies in how owners react to the exact same steering could also be a byproduct of FCA's ongoing fixation with attracting a "new" buyer.

Those who find nothing wrong with the steering could easily be buyers who know how Wrangler steering is supposed to feel. On the other hand, those who find the same steering "awful" could be those new buyers FCA wanted to attract, but who find JL's handling characteristics completely inappropriate for a $50,000+ purchase.

I would agree. There are surely a lot of JL buyers who are getting into their first Wrangler. For them, it will certainly be a learning curve.

However, there are many experienced "Jeepers" who are noticing the terrible steering/handling issues. I've owned a ZJ, WJ, YJ, and two JKUs which obviously all had similar 5-link suspension connected to solid axles at both ends. NONE of those Jeeps felt odd to me. They drove and handled just fine. I noticed the JL issue as soon as I pulled out of the lot. Test drove a total of 3 JLs to confirm. The JL feels like a bass boat out on the lake on a windy day.

 

The JL feels like a bass boat out on the lake on a windy day.

LMAO

 

F.C.A. needs to address; resolve, avoid future such issues, recall sold Jeeps for HIGHLY trained inspection persons, and make this go away stat. My guess is most of the fore-mentioned is/has taken place. I just do not see F.C.A. standing idly by letting this pass without major attention to fix and make it right.

 

So I had read somewhere there is a recall for JLs related to not having the proper rust proofing for JLs built around October. Is this related to that?

 

No, it looks like a different issue. See the Allpar news story:
The 2018 Wrangler recall without a final solution (at https://www.allpar.com/news/2018/04/the-2018-wrangler-recall-without-a-final-solution-40337 )

 

This is weird. The guys at TFL when they tested a 2.0 Sahara, they commented on how well it handled, and how quiet it was. So what has happened between now and then?

Here is the link to the YouTube video:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZZwLWPekp0

 

This is weird. The guys at TFL when they tested a 2.0 Sahara, they commented on how well it handled, and how quiet it was. So what has happened between now and then?

Here is the link to the YouTube video:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZZwLWPekp0

They must have just got out of a Raptor

 

Yeah it's definitely nothing to do with the tires. Out of the 3 JLs I tested, this one had Bridgestone H/Ts on it and the other two had Michelin LTX M/S tires on them, which are also popular tires. On the Sport, you can also check the box on the order sheet for "all terrain tires" which is the same cost, and will give you either the Bridgestone A/T or the Goodyear Adventure tires. I've seen a total of 5 separate tires that Jeep is using on the JLs.

This issue is related to either A) something in the steering that is tight when new and needs time to break in or B) improper welding allowing the track bar bracket to deflect some under strain. I'm really hoping it's just the former.

 

I just saw an article that FCA is recalling 106 JLs for rear seat issues: FCA Recalls Jeep Wrangler for Seat Issues

Sorry, I am starting to lose track of the many JL issues. Is this the same recall that was just announced, or another one?

 

I just saw an article that FCA is recalling 106 JLs for rear seat issues: FCA Recalls Jeep Wrangler for Seat Issues

Is this the same recall that was just announced, or another one?

Sorry, I am starting to lose track of the many JL issues.

Same one. They are both U27.

The 2018 Wrangler recall without a final solution (at https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/the-2018-wrangler-recall-without-a-final-solution.171489/ )

 

Wow...........what is it with FCA and product launches.
In this day and age with testing, pre-production set-ups, etc. , it is inexcusable for all the problems.
And yes I ordered a 2dr JL Rubicon, but kinda scared.

 

There are quite a few posts on the JLforums about dealers forgetting to lower tire pressure upon delivery. People are driving off the lot with 45+ psi...

 

Stupid question maybe, but why would the tires be over inflated upon delivery to the dealer?

 

This is a concerning problem, not sure if its a supplier issue or plain old quality control, maybe outsourcing a frame is not such a hot idea, seeing as how to make it right becomes very complex because of structural nature of the problems. If they make their own engines, still, then something like a frame should be a priority to get 100% right, and maybe they should be doing it themselves. Toyota found this out the hard way with their multiple frame recalls and buy backs. While it didn't seem to cost them customers, because they did far more than any other company would, it surely cost them a fortune, to make it right and keep those customers. Remember those words, FCA decision makers....."make it right....keep those customers"....I recall reading somewhere that each Tacoma frame replacement was in the range of $12,000.

 

It's the same at the Firestone shop I use on occasion. I can bring my truck in with the pressures at 38 psi and afterwards I'll find them back down to 35 psi. Arrrgggh!

I told America’s Tire to inflate the tires on my Wrangler to 35 psi once a couple of years ago. They must have entered into their system because whenever I go for a rebalance and rotation, they still do 35 psi to this day.

 

Stupid question maybe, but why would the tires be over inflated upon delivery to the dealer?

To prevent lot rott or flat spots

 

*attempt to prevent*

Still happens unfortunately.

 

I just had a chance to do a thorough walk round of JL. My local CDJR dealer has a white Sahara in the showroom.

Without driving It, here are my impressions.

What I liked:

• Everything you touch feels higher grade
• Love the new Sahara wheels
• The new Dueler ATs look more butch; fits Wrangler look better. No need to swap them right away
• I like the Sahara metal-looking lettering instead of a cheap decals
• The rear seat is not a pew fit for sitting through mass anymore
• The new hood latches are a marvel to operate
• I like the profile of the front end and the bulge on the hood. Looks nice.

What I didn't like:

• I could see what looked like dimples appearing around the door hinges already
• The glove box shrunk by a third
• The interior felt smaller and tighter fitting than in my JKs --although it could be because my JKs have/had Saddle color leather; this one was all black
• The front seat recliner uses a strap instead of a lever
• You can now see the body-color painted roll cage through the rear quarter windows
• The new hardtop headliner is made of that cheap material found under the hood
• The rear end design looks off: with the license plate down on the bumper; the tail lights look too small for the vehicle
• Still don't like those fender-mounted DRLs

All-in-all, there isn't enough improvement to lure me out of my JK.

I'l have to drive it to find if there's enough improvement in that area.

 

I could see what looked like dimples appearing around the door hinges already
The glove box shrunk by a third
The interior felt smaller and tighter fitting than in my JKs --although it could be because my JKs have/had Saddle color leather; this one was all black
The front seat recliner uses a strap instead of a lever
You can now see the body-color painted roll cage through the rear quarter windows
The hardtop headliner is now made of a cheap material similar to that found under the hood
The rear end design looks off: with the license plate down on the bumper; the tail lights look too small for the vehicle
Still don't like those fender mounted DLRs

Legroom in the front apparently grew by 0.2" while hip room shrunk by 1.7" in the front.

It feels even less than that to me... I had adequate legroom in the front of the JK; that's not so in the JL.

 

 

View attachment 17439

I should check if I can replace the hood latches on my JK with these. JK hood latches are Chinese torture devices; these new ones are just amazing.