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I'm not even sure why Stella is still bothering with ANYTHING short of full 100% EV's. To me, anything short of 100% EV is simply a waste of time, money and resources.
And time, money, and resources are things Stella doesn't have the luxury of wasting.

When it comes to the EV marketplace out there...allow me to paraphrase the composer / vocalist Bob Dylan: There's a battle outside and it's a-raging!

The pressure is on, and heating up from Tesla, the multitude of Chinese OEM's, and the other EV startups
Like it or not... (and some of us don't) ...but that's where we're headed.
PHEV all the way. It is the only technology that works for everyone. Fuel is always available, and you don't have to worry about them raising the price of electricity. BEV is still an expensive science experiment and/or social statement.
 

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PHEV all the way. It is the only technology that works for everyone. Fuel is always available, and you don't have to worry about them raising the price of electricity. BEV is still an expensive science experiment and/or social statement.
The general public usually likes progressive change, PHEV's give the public a taste of electricity without forcing them to adapt to a new, unproven technology. EV's won't become truly mainstream until you can get prices where most people can afford them, the range improves to at least 500 miles between charges so long trips are possible, charge time equates to the same time it takes to fill up a tank of gas at a gas station, and the batteries/powertrains of EV's are proven reliable.

Lack of a charging station infrastructure also hinders EV's from becoming mainstream.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Hey don't shoot the messenger. Allpar sophistry (by some) to keep their one point delusions alive (dodge and chrysler should recieve full lineups, Sergio was evil, jeep should only do wrangler esque off roaders, jeep is not a premium priced brand: chrysler is!
....and yes Sergio was evil especially when and since he was mostly right, but hey margins don't matter,.....Giorgio is useless waste since Chrysler corp did it all already in 1990....)
You are not a messenger.

You are a fluffer that has not backed up most of what you post and now that the truth is known, you cannot even admit you were wrong about Giorgio being under the Grand Cherokee. That would be what someone with integrity would do.

Your statements in this post are again unsupportable and distort what members here have said.

Dodge and Chrysler should receive full lineups: Not true

Sergio was evil: he did many good things, but was in charge for more criminal activity than any other CEO

Jeeps should only do wrangler-esque off-roaders: That is a lie. Jeeps should have unquestioned capability. Nobody has advocated for Wrangler capability. Stop lying.

Jeep is not a premium priced brand: Another LIE. There is nothing wrong with premium priced Jeep if it also has unquestioned capability. As discussed the Wagoneers do not even have a Trail Rated version and would do better under a properly branded and strengthened Chrysler.


Lastly, Sergio was not mostly right. He did not fix the fundamentals of quality and customer service. He did not fix branding. Sergio's product failures are legendary: Dart, 200, Fiat in North America, Alfa revival, Maserati revival, Giorgio, 9-speed transmissions, Pacifica, JL frame welds, JL steering boxes. Sergio has not had a single hit product in the largest auto market in the world. Sergio did not have a sales streak, he had to falsify it. Sergio did not have UAW support, he had to bribe them. Sergio insulted Commander owners. Sergio blamed his own employees for the 200 when he approved the design. Sergio tried to deny Bigland his bonus because Bigland cooperated with the government on the false sales figures crimes. Sergio was caught bribing the UAW and probably would have stood trial had he not passed away.

You are free to blindly admire that. But that is now how most people define a successful leader.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
St Sergio....you are exposed

FCA Europe - unprofitable under Sergio

Expunged deeply subprime from Chrysler - Renegade, Compass, Cherokee are subprime leaders with some of the heaviest incentives in North America

I believe Jim Morrison over Sergio any day since Sergio has lied many times. Grand Cherokee is on an essentially clean sheet design.

Your "FACTS" get debunked here point-by-point....not just by me, but others. You have ZERO credibility with me and I will no longer respond to your vapid posts.
 
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St Sergio....you are exposed

FCA Europe - unprofitable under Sergio

Expunged deeply subprime from Chrysler - Renegade, Compass, Cherokee are subprime leaders with some of the heaviest incentives in North America

I believe Jim Morrison over Sergio any day since Sergio has lied many times. Grand Cherokee is on an essentially clean sheet design.

Your "FACTS" get debunked here point-by-point....not just by me, but others. You have ZERO credibility with me and I will no longer respond to your vapid posts.
It’s not worth responding at this point, he’s just trolling. He rambles on from one random argument to the next, with absolutely no facts or references to back up anything he says.

As they say, “don’t feed the trolls”.

Edit: I just hit the ignore button, my sanity means more to me.
 

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Hey don't shoot the messenger. Allpar sophistry (by some) to keep their one point delusions alive (dodge and chrysler should recieve full lineups, Sergio was evil, jeep should only do wrangler esque off roaders, jeep is not a premium priced brand: chrysler is!
....and yes Sergio was evil especially when and since he was mostly right, but hey margins don't matter,.....Giorgio is useless waste since Chrysler corp did it all already in 1990....)
Don't pretend you're the messenger. You're just making stuff up and then changing the subject when you're called on it... when you're not putting words into our mouths and doing ___ arguments (I can't recall the name of the fallacy now).

I believe Jim Morrison over Sergio any day since Sergio has lied many times. Grand Cherokee is on an essentially clean sheet design.
I don't think Sergio lied nearly as often as you think he did, but I do find Jim Morrison very credible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
The general public usually likes progressive change, PHEV's give the public a taste of electricity without forcing them to adapt to a new, unproven technology. EV's won't become truly mainstream until you can get prices where most people can afford them, the range improves to at least 500 miles between charges so long trips are possible, charge time equates to the same time it takes to fill up a tank of gas at a gas station, and the batteries/powertrains of EV's are proven reliable.

Lack of a charging station infrastructure also hinders EV's from becoming mainstream.
Yes, the sure-fire way to destroy BEVs is to mandate them before the public is ready. Strand a bunch of motorists in the cold and soon, nobody will trust BEV technology again.

PHEV is the ideal transition technology for a wide swath of the motoring public.
 

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EV's won't become truly mainstream until you can get prices where most people can afford them, the range improves to at least 500 miles between charges so long trips are possible, charge time equates to the same time it takes to fill up a tank of gas at a gas station, and the batteries/powertrains of EV's are proven reliable.

Lack of a charging station infrastructure also hinders EV's from becoming mainstream.
All of the issues you raise are being worked on as we speak, and I think we'll be seeing solutions to these coming sooner rather than later.
One example. As regards price, have you been following the activities of the Chinese OEM's lately. They are ready, willing and able to undercut the market as much as they have to in order to establish a beach-head in North America.

The other issues you raise will be dealt with by incremental improvements, and will evaporate as issues.

I warn you...and anyone else who cares to listen....Legacy ICE Auto is in mortal danger... and they don't even realize how quickly the transition to EV's will truly happen.

Ever heard of something called "the S curve"?. This has already happened in Norway. Think of Norway as the proverbial "canary in the coal mine".
This transition will not be linear, as so many assume.

For some in Legacy ICE Auto......(hopefully NOT dear Stella)......It may already be too late!

 

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All of the issues you raise are being worked on as we speak, and I think we'll be seeing solutions to these coming sooner rather than later.
One example. As regards price, have you been following the activities of the Chinese OEM's lately. They are ready, willing and able to undercut the market as much as they have to in order to establish a beach-head in North America.

The other issues you raise will be dealt with by incremental improvements, and will evaporate as issues.

I warn you...and anyone else who cares to listen....Legacy ICE Auto is in mortal danger... and they don't even realize how quickly the transition to EV's will truly happen.

Ever heard of something called "the S curve"?. This has already happened in Norway. Think of Norway as the proverbial "canary in the coal mine".
This transition will not be linear, as so many assume.

For some in Legacy ICE Auto......(hopefully NOT dear Stella)......It may already be too late!

Yes they are, and the infrastructure will be ready everywhere in 50 -100 years. If they get it down to 15 minutes a charge we will need 3 times as many charging stations as we presently have gas pumps. We will also need 3 times as many power stations, transformers and high tension power lines.

The US isn't Norway or any other compact European country.

That's just the technical issues. Half the country thinks all of the above spending is a complete waste of money.
 

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If they get it down to 15 minutes a charge we will need 3 times as many charging stations as we presently have gas pumps.
Unless you're counting home charging stations, then I disagree. With my driving, I fill up with gas about once or twice a week. If I had an EV with 300 mile range, I'd almost never charge away from home. My little taste of EV driving that I'm getting with my Hybrid Pacifica has opened my eyes on this point. Every morning an EV driver who has home charging can leave the driveway with a "full tank". I'd only ever charge away from home on very long road trips, which I rarely take. I may be more of a homebody than most, but the statistics I've seen on American driving habits lead me to believe that for most people, >300 miles in a day is needed rarely.

So for me, I may fill up with gas 75 times/year, but I would need to charge away from home once or twice a year.
 

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Unless you're counting home charging stations, then I disagree. With my driving, I fill up with gas about once or twice a week. If I had an EV with 300 mile range, I'd almost never charge away from home. My little taste of EV driving that I'm getting with my Hybrid Pacifica has opened my eyes on this point. Every morning an EV driver who has home charging can leave the driveway with a "full tank". I'd only ever charge away from home on very long road trips, which I rarely take. I may be more of a homebody than most, but the statistics I've seen on American driving habits lead me to believe that for most people, >300 miles in a day is needed rarely.

So for me, I may fill up with gas 75 times/year, but I would need to charge away from home once or twice a year.
I think America will lag the rest of the world when it comes from transitioning from ICE's to EV's...like standard measurement vs metric. Most of the world has converted to metric while America stays with standard.
I expect Europe to transition quickly to EV's as those countries are small and many have the capacity to easily transition from gas to electric.
America would have to have a major electrical infrastructure overhaul to support a major shift to EV's, and I don't see that coming down the pike anytime soon.
 

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Unless you're counting home charging stations, then I disagree. With my driving, I fill up with gas about once or twice a week. If I had an EV with 300 mile range, I'd almost never charge away from home. My little taste of EV driving that I'm getting with my Hybrid Pacifica has opened my eyes on this point. Every morning an EV driver who has home charging can leave the driveway with a "full tank". I'd only ever charge away from home on very long road trips, which I rarely take. I may be more of a homebody than most, but the statistics I've seen on American driving habits lead me to believe that for most people, >300 miles in a day is needed rarely.

So for me, I may fill up with gas 75 times/year, but I would need to charge away from home once or twice a year.
I had always thought of it in terms of, will I be able to find a charging station while I'm out and about. But you bring up a good point, that I rarely drive more than what would be the range of a typical BEV. My commute to work is roughly 50 miles or so, one way. With a range of 200 miles or greater, I would have more than enough to get me there and home, and I could recharge at home. I do drive a lot, but I would rarely use up the entire range at one time.

Indeed something to think about.....
 
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a) Giorgio and STLA Large are 2 very different platforms which means that Stella leaders are nuts because we will see new Giorgio car going in production in late 2026
b) STLA Large is non other than Giorgio with its many forks

Anyway. Most of you know nothing about model platforms and iterative development but also about production of many different electrified versions. Basically every electrified version rides on a different car architecture which is within the same family of architectures.
 

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Giorgio and STLA Large are 2 different platforms, but STLA Large is non other than Giorgio....? Electrified versions ride on different architectures, but are within the same family of architectures?

Did you read what you typed before you posted it?? And you say we don't know anything? Oh boy..........

Add another one to the shifting nonsense argument crowd....
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
a) Giorgio and STLA Large are 2 very different platforms which means that Stella leaders are nuts because we will see new Giorgio car going in production in late 2026
b) STLA Large is non other than Giorgio with its many forks

Anyway. Most of you know nothing about model platforms and iterative development but also about production of many different electrified versions. Basically every electrified version rides on a different car architecture which is within the same family of architectures.
Jim Morrison knows more than you. He says Grand Cherokee is essentially a clean sheet design. End of story.

But feel free to keep trying to desperately convince everyone that it is Giorgio under the Grand Cherokee.....

PS: I know that English is not your native language, but in the future, keep in mind that it is "none other" not "non other".
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Giorgio and STLA Large are 2 different platforms, but STLA Large is non other than Giorgio....? Electrified versions ride on different architectures, but are within the same family of architectures?

Did you read what you typed before you posted it?? And you say we don't know anything? Oh boy..........

Add another one to the shifting nonsense argument crowd....
Well, Giorgio was designed for 4 wheels and since everything coming in the near future will use 4 wheels, therefore, they must all be based on Giorgio........:LOL::ROFLMAO::LOL:
 

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Unless you're counting home charging stations, then I disagree. With my driving, I fill up with gas about once or twice a week. If I had an EV with 300 mile range, I'd almost never charge away from home. My little taste of EV driving that I'm getting with my Hybrid Pacifica has opened my eyes on this point. Every morning an EV driver who has home charging can leave the driveway with a "full tank". I'd only ever charge away from home on very long road trips, which I rarely take. I may be more of a homebody than most, but the statistics I've seen on American driving habits lead me to believe that for most people, >300 miles in a day is needed rarely.

So for me, I may fill up with gas 75 times/year, but I would need to charge away from home once or twice a year.
If we count home charging stations then the number is far higher, because one gas pump services far more people than one family. If every single family house and apartment got one or two home charging stations the infrastructure cost is very high. That basically forces every parking complex to assigned parking as well. Then they have to think of a way to make locked weather proof charging stations.
 

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Well, Giorgio was designed for 4 wheels and since everything coming in the near future will use 4 wheels, therefore, they must all be based on Giorgio........:LOL::ROFLMAO::LOL:
All future vehicles are in the same family!! :LOL: Unfortunately that’d be what we call a genetic bottleneck…:cry:…no diversity.

Seriously though, who really cares what platform it is or isn’t? The only reason it really matters is if they spent a lot of money on a specific platform and that platform didn’t end up being used for as many different applications as they originally planned, and if they lost money…money that could’ve been spent on other things. And that seems like the case here.

Yet some here, and some who went to another site, treat it as a personal affront to them if you question it. I don’t have the time or tolerance for that kind of nonsense,
 

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I think America will lag the rest of the world when it comes from transitioning from ICE's to EV's...like standard measurement vs metric. Most of the world has converted to metric while America stays with standard.
I expect Europe to transition quickly to EV's as those countries are small and many have the capacity to easily transition from gas to electric.
America would have to have a major electrical infrastructure overhaul to support a major shift to EV's, and I don't see that coming down the pike anytime soon.
Yup. We are a nation that does not like investing in infrastructure and the common good. Also, for various reasons, we have a lot of areas with insanely large minimum plot sizes, so mass transit and electric car intrastructure both suffer. It's one of the reasons we have crazy expensive cellphones when, for example, everyone in Israel has a good cheap cell.

I think most automakers are assuming the US will go to electric dominance around five to ten years after Europe. It seems about right. And some will never want to change; I remember people buying the last remaining cars with carburetors because they didn't trust EFI. And some who stuck with rear wheel drive even though they didn't have a performance car.
 

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If we count home charging stations then the number is far higher, because one gas pump services far more people than one family. If every single family house and apartment got one or two home charging stations the infrastructure cost is very high. That basically forces every parking complex to assigned parking as well. Then they have to think of a way to make locked weather proof charging stations.
But my prediction is that per driver, fewer public charging stations will be required than gas pumps today - even if charging away from home takes triple the amount of time than filling with gas. I believe the number of charges at public stations will be far fewer than the number of fill-ups at gas pumps.

There is no need for assigned parking. Technology will take care of that - the charger will communicate with the vehicle for billing purposes.
 
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