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As most of us here at Allpar are aware, the LD Charger and 300, and the LA Challenger are to be replaced.

Here is the first article regarding some official news from Chrysler regarding the changes:
.

 

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First off, love the new profile picture 馃槀 馃槀 馃槀
Secondly, MoparInsiders also posted something about this, but called the new models "LF" & "LB" respectfully, which wouldn't make much sense to be honest with you. (I mean, LC to LA to LB is just odd)
That EV though will be sweet!
 

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We all know that STLA Large will underpin the replacements for the Charger and Challenger.
 
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Yup, this really isn't news. 2023-24 was well known as the last years. The big question is whether STLA Large is going to be based on Giorgio or a mix of LX, Maserati, WL, and new, or whatever... which requires knowing what WL is!
 

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Yup, this really isn't news. 2023-24 was well known as the last years. The big question is whether STLA Large is going to be based on Giorgio or a mix of LX, Maserati, WL, and new, or whatever... which requires knowing what WL is!
We know WL is essentially a clean sheet design from Jim Morrison himself.

I think STLA Large will not be WL if it is to offer 500 mile BEV range.
 
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We know WL is essentially a clean sheet design from Jim Morrison himself.

I think STLA Large will not be WL if it is to offer 500 mile BEV range.
I didn't want to provoke the Italians here.

Re STLA Large, well, who knows what capabilities WL really has or where they are going. For all we know it was a one-off. Really, I was hoping the next-gen L-cars would just get the Maserati front suspension design and everything else stay steady...
 

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2004-2024: LX/LC/LD/LA had an incredible run in my opinion. To me these cars have been the most interesting ones in the past two decades (and not just from Chrysler). While sales today are not the same as a decode ago I feel these will be large shoes to fill...
 

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I didn't want to provoke the Italians here.

Re STLA Large, well, who knows what capabilities WL really has or where they are going. For all we know it was a one-off. Really, I was hoping the next-gen L-cars would just get the Maserati front suspension design and everything else stay steady...
I think if WL was so advanced, it would not be using the same 4xe system as the Wrangler. It would have more electric range. It appears to be a stopgap for 5 years until STLA Large is in place.

That is a good thing to have a new Grand Cherokee every 5 years again, like we did pre-FCA.
 
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That is a good thing to have a new Grand Cherokee every 5 years again, like we did pre-FCA.
Agreed!!!! The feeling I'm getting from Stellantis is definitely that of a fully functioning AUTOMAKER, not the FCA days of, heck, I don't have a clue what they were doing.
 

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Giorgio Global is the original Giorgio with adaptations to allow it to fill the roles of WK2 and the L platforms - and yes, that did include incorporating significant elements of those platforms. It鈥檚 simply not credible that FCA decided to build the new version of its most profitable product by throwing away everything they already had and starting with a 鈥渃lean sheet鈥. That is not what engineers do for a living, or how businesses spend R&D money.

Here is part of the 2019 document that prompted a story on Allpar about Wagoneer going back to unibody ( here: (2) Is the Wagoneer going back to unibody? (Updated) | Allpar Forums ). Note that Charger is listed here as an active product - it would later be suspended. The two Alfa models appear to have been suspended in 2020 in the reshuffle that created Grecale and MC20 from Stelvio LWB and GTV6 respectively.

The product described as 鈥淕rand Wagoneer WS鈥 here was later renamed Grand Cherokee L, WL75. It seems FCA was hedging its bets on whether it could offer Wagoneer as a BoF, and it would make a lot of sense to anyone who was trying to follow the conflicting rumors around Wagoneer at the time.

Plant Font Rectangle Pattern Logo


Here is what 鈥淲L鈥 looked like back then, from the same source:
Wood Rectangle Art Pattern Font
 

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Giorgio Global is the original Giorgio with adaptations to allow it to fill the roles of WK2 and the L platforms - and yes, that did include incorporating significant elements of those platforms. It鈥檚 simply not credible that FCA decided to build the new version of its most profitable product by throwing away everything they already had and starting with a 鈥渃lean sheet鈥. That is not what engineers do for a living, or how businesses spend R&D money.

Here is part of the 2019 document that prompted a story on Allpar about Wagoneer going back to unibody ( here: (2) Is the Wagoneer going back to unibody? (Updated) | Allpar Forums ). Note that Charger is listed here as an active product - it would later be suspended. The two Alfa models appear to have been suspended in 2020 in the reshuffle that created Grecale and MC20 from Stelvio LWB and GTV6 respectively.

The product described as 鈥淕rand Wagoneer WS鈥 here was later renamed Grand Cherokee L, WL75. It seems FCA was hedging its bets on whether it could offer Wagoneer as a BoF, and it would make a lot of sense to anyone who was trying to follow the conflicting rumors around Wagoneer at the time.

View attachment 83904

Here is what 鈥淲L鈥 looked like back then, from the same source:
View attachment 83905
Here is the answer from Jeep VP Jim Morrison in this article:
2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Chassis Deep-Dive: Don鈥檛 Call Me Giorgio (motortrend.com)

From the article:
Okay, there's nothing entirely new under the sun, and surely a few bolts, bits, and bobs carry over, but Jim swears this architecture essentially started from a clean sheet. The team that designed it was, of course, intimately familiar with the Giorgio platform that underpins the Alfa Romeo Stelvio (and Giulia sedan) and presumably will spawn Maserati's Grecale SUV. But the engineering that lends itself to a great road-burner SUV (and sport sedan) doesn't necessarily facilitate deftly tiptoeing across the Rubicon Trail. This WL is optimized for sure-footed off-roading, for handling payload and towing burdens that rank near the top of its class, and for easier access to the cabin.

That settles it.
 

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That is a good thing to have a new Grand Cherokee every 5 years again, like we did pre-FCA.
To each their own. Personally, I like it when someone designs and engineers a car that can be competitive for ten years. I think the WK2 proved that. Granted, I haven鈥檛 driven the WL yet but somehow I doubt it offers that much more.

Besides EVs I personally feel like if you compared cars to smart phones we are in the era where a new major improvement is adding more emojis and then calling it next gen鈥
 

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Jim swears this architecture essentially started from a clean sheet
VP says it's a clean sheet.
VP is from Jeep.
Who in their right mind wants a Jeep on an Alfa platform?
Oh, right. People will say something to ease the minds of their customer base.... like FCA has for years (from early meh-levels of success to just "we get it, it's not coming out any time soon").
 

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Giorgio Global is the original Giorgio with adaptations to allow it to fill the roles of WK2 and the L platforms - and yes, that did include incorporating significant elements of those platforms. It鈥檚 simply not credible that FCA decided to build the new version of its most profitable product by throwing away everything they already had and starting with a 鈥渃lean sheet鈥. That is not what engineers do for a living, or how businesses spend R&D money.

Here is part of the 2019 document that prompted a story on Allpar about Wagoneer going back to unibody ( here: (2) Is the Wagoneer going back to unibody? (Updated) | Allpar Forums ). Note that Charger is listed here as an active product - it would later be suspended. The two Alfa models appear to have been suspended in 2020 in the reshuffle that created Grecale and MC20 from Stelvio LWB and GTV6 respectively.

The product described as 鈥淕rand Wagoneer WS鈥 here was later renamed Grand Cherokee L, WL75. It seems FCA was hedging its bets on whether it could offer Wagoneer as a BoF, and it would make a lot of sense to anyone who was trying to follow the conflicting rumors around Wagoneer at the time.

View attachment 83904

Here is what 鈥淲L鈥 looked like back then, from the same source:
View attachment 83905
Surely. You've must made it in Photoshop. No way that WL is on Giorgio. Spot on interior design is just a coincidence.

Grecale and Giorgio BEV is also yet another made up story.

Isn't that right @Erik Latranyi ?
 

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They say the architecture is a clean sheet, not the platform. Architecture and platform are not the same thing, though often used interchangeably for whatever reasons. I think they purposely muddy the waters for their own reasons, marketing or otherwise. That鈥檚 their business.

At this point, who cares? If whatever they鈥檙e building with and upon is resulting in an effective vehicle, then that鈥檚 all that should matter.
 

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Here is the answer from Jeep VP Jim Morrison in this article:
2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Chassis Deep-Dive: Don鈥檛 Call Me Giorgio (motortrend.com)

From the article:
Okay, there's nothing entirely new under the sun, and surely a few bolts, bits, and bobs carry over, but Jim swears this architecture essentially started from a clean sheet. The team that designed it was, of course, intimately familiar with the Giorgio platform that underpins the Alfa Romeo Stelvio (and Giulia sedan) and presumably will spawn Maserati's Grecale SUV. But the engineering that lends itself to a great road-burner SUV (and sport sedan) doesn't necessarily facilitate deftly tiptoeing across the Rubicon Trail. This WL is optimized for sure-footed off-roading, for handling payload and towing burdens that rank near the top of its class, and for easier access to the cabin.

That settles it.
Sorry, but that dog won't hunt. We have paper saying otherwise.
 
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