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I think if WL was so advanced, it would not be using the same 4xe system as the Wrangler. It would have more electric range. It appears to be a stopgap for 5 years until STLA Large is in place.

That is a good thing to have a new Grand Cherokee every 5 years again, like we did pre-FCA.
Platforms aren't parts ;)

They say the architecture is a clean sheet, not the platform. Architecture and platform are not the same thing, though often used interchangeably for whatever reasons. I think they purposely muddy the waters for their own reasons, marketing or otherwise. That’s their business.
Yup. And the platform doesn't seem to be a major competitive advantage so far—possibly because they're not taking advantage of it with powertrain.

I haven’t driven the WL yet but somehow I doubt it offers that much more.

Besides EVs I personally feel like if you compared cars to smart phones we are in the era where a new major improvement is adding more emojis and then calling it next gen…
1) If you haven't driven it, you can't judge it. The WK2 was a fine vehicle but I suspect WL can run rings around it on a road course — cornering.

2) While Apple, at least, tends to talk up emojis with new software releases, the phone hardware is constantly improving. Not enough that I actually moved past the 6S Plus, but enough that many have. (Mostly the cameras, I suspect; processor speed is hugely improved but I have to wonder who really cares. Some people must. Maybe hardcore phone-gamers?)

EVs provide increased range, acceleration, charging speeds, and durability as generations go past.
 

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The basic definition of a platform in cars, from a technical point of view, includes: underbody and suspensions (with axles) — where the underbody is made of front floor, Rearfloor, engine compartment and frame (reinforcement of underbody).

Key mechanical components that define an automobile platform include:

The floorpan, which serves as a foundation for the chassis and other structural and mechanical components
Front and rear axles and the distance between them - wheelbase
Steering mechanism and type of power steering
Type of front and rear suspensions
Placement and choice of engine and other powertrain components

Platform sharing is a product development method where different products and the brand attached share the same components.

The purpose with platform sharing is to reduce the cost and have a more efficient product development process.

The companies gain on reduced procurement cost by taking advantage of the commonality of the components. However, this also limits their ability to differentiate the products and imposes a risk of losing the tangible uniqueness of the product. The companies have to make a trade-off between reducing their development costs and the degree of differentiation of the products.

Please show me the shared platform parts between WL and Giorgio.
 

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1) If you haven't driven it, you can't judge it. The WK2 was a fine vehicle but I suspect WL can run rings around it on a road course — cornering.

2) While Apple, at least, tends to talk up emojis with new software releases, the phone hardware is constantly improving. Not enough that I actually moved past the 6S Plus, but enough that many have. (Mostly the cameras, I suspect; processor speed is hugely improved but I have to wonder who really cares. Some people must. Maybe hardcore phone-gamers?)

EVs provide increased range, acceleration, charging speeds, and durability as generations go past.
This is just a general philosophical question that I personally have and I realize it goes beyond the discussion of this topic: just wondering if human kind doesn't have bigger problems right now than the efforts we put in WL and iPhone 13... Or to put it differentlly: when is something good enough? Does Porsche really need to shave another 10 seconds off their Nuerburgring ring time? Just another example.
 

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This is just a general philosophical question that I personally have and I realize it goes beyond the discussion of this topic: just wondering if human kind doesn't have bigger problems right now than the efforts we put in WL and iPhone 13... Or to put it differentlly: when is something good enough? Does Porsche really need to shave another 10 seconds off their Nuerburgring ring time? Just another example.
When is something good enough?

Never.

We are humans. We always try to invent a better X.

It is in our nature.
 

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The Grecale is on Giorgio and shares many parts with the Stelvio.
 

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Giorgio Global is the original Giorgio with adaptations to allow it to fill the roles of WK2 and the L platforms - and yes, that did include incorporating significant elements of those platforms. It’s simply not credible that FCA decided to build the new version of its most profitable product by throwing away everything they already had and starting with a “clean sheet”. That is not what engineers do for a living, or how businesses spend R&D money.

Here is part of the 2019 document that prompted a story on Allpar about Wagoneer going back to unibody ( here: (2) Is the Wagoneer going back to unibody? (Updated) | Allpar Forums ). Note that Charger is listed here as an active product - it would later be suspended. The two Alfa models appear to have been suspended in 2020 in the reshuffle that created Grecale and MC20 from Stelvio LWB and GTV6 respectively.

The product described as “Grand Wagoneer WS” here was later renamed Grand Cherokee L, WL75. It seems FCA was hedging its bets on whether it could offer Wagoneer as a BoF, and it would make a lot of sense to anyone who was trying to follow the conflicting rumors around Wagoneer at the time.

View attachment 83904

Here is what “WL” looked like back then, from the same source:
View attachment 83905
Well the plan originally was to make Giulia on D-evo a RWD version of C-evo, but when that couldn't meet targets they threw it out and went with the clean sheet Giorgio. FCA management had a history of doing this thing, why shouldn't we believe the same thing happened here? That's exactly how the business spent its R&D money, and the engineers followed the orders. That's why they wound up at merge or die.
 

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It is confirmed that WL is an all new architecture.

Additionally , WL shares no parts with Stelvio (not platform sharing)

So, please enlighten me as to how WL is really Giorgio.
 

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This is just a general philosophical question that I personally have and I realize it goes beyond the discussion of this topic: just wondering if human kind doesn't have bigger problems right now than the efforts we put in WL and iPhone 13... Or to put it differentlly: when is something good enough? Does Porsche really need to shave another 10 seconds off their Nuerburgring ring time? Just another example.
As a philosophical response:

I would be just fine if we put a hold on all cellphone upgrades for ten years. They really are good enough.

But as a whole I think our society's priorities are nuts. Just compare the income of an investment banker to that of a farmer or medical researcher or agricultural researcher or teacher or cop... (Max Weber's dreams didn't quite come true in many fields.)
 

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Well the plan originally was to make Giulia on D-evo a RWD version of C-evo, but when that couldn't meet targets they threw it out and went with the clean sheet Giorgio. FCA management had a history of doing this thing, why shouldn't we believe the same thing happened here? That's exactly how the business spent its R&D money, and the engineers followed the orders. That's why they wound up at merge or die.
The Giulia product was originally planned on the FRONT-wheel-drive C-Evo platform. There was no RWD version of C-Evo. Ever. It was FWD and AWD only.
 

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The Giulia product was originally planned on the FRONT-wheel-drive C-Evo platform. There was no RWD version of C-Evo. Ever. It was FWD and AWD only.
I have no idea what you're responding to. I don't mean to cause offense, but I'd appreciate your elaborating.
 

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Platforms aren't parts ;)



Yup. And the platform doesn't seem to be a major competitive advantage so far—possibly because they're not taking advantage of it with powertrain.



1) If you haven't driven it, you can't judge it. The WK2 was a fine vehicle but I suspect WL can run rings around it on a road course — cornering.

2) While Apple, at least, tends to talk up emojis with new software releases, the phone hardware is constantly improving. Not enough that I actually moved past the 6S Plus, but enough that many have. (Mostly the cameras, I suspect; processor speed is hugely improved but I have to wonder who really cares. Some people must. Maybe hardcore phone-gamers?)

EVs provide increased range, acceleration, charging speeds, and durability as generations go past.
We test drove one recently. It was very nice. Quiet, and smooth. My wife has been on the sidelines until this came along. She loves her Commander and hadn't found anything she liked to replace it till now. The big problem for us is deciding which color we want. I looked at a dark red one today. I like it.
 

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I just hope the sedans have more rear seat legroom. Otherwise, if they are styled as evolutionary vehicles of the current LD Chargers, but offer the same (or better) performance than a Scat with EV drivetrains, for the same price, I will be ordering one as soon as they are available.
 

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As a philosophical response:

I would be just fine if we put a hold on all cellphone upgrades for ten years. They really are good enough.
My wife still uses a Galaxy S5.. I would still be using it but am one of the leading experts on dropping and breaking them. They're also not much different than cars, where if you can't fix it yourself you sometimes come out better replacing it.
But as a whole I think our society's priorities are nuts.
Pretty sure we all just want to be rich and ignore the world burning. You're telling me that's not good for human kind?
 

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I have no idea what you're responding to. I don't mean to cause offense, but I'd appreciate your elaborating.
I was replying to the post that claimed that FCA had tried to make a RWD version of C-Evo. They didn’t. What they did try to do was to make a FWD Alfa Sedan on a widened C-Evo to follow up 159 (also FWD), but that project was dropped in favor of going all-out on RWD performance… and that’s where Giorgio came from.
 

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I was replying to the post that claimed that FCA had tried to make a RWD version of C-Evo. They didn’t. What they did try to do was to make a FWD Alfa Sedan on a widened C-Evo to follow up 159 (also FWD), but that project was dropped in favor of going all-out on RWD performance… and that’s where Giorgio came from.
I didn't see that post, which explains why I didn't understand your post. Thanks for the explanation.
 

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They should...the Charger and Challenger nameplates have cache and mean something to buyers.
That would be like Toyota making an electric Camry and instead of using the well established Camry nameplate call it the Toyota Cressida.
We all know what brand equity and nameplates mean to this company. (Answer: Nothing).
 
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