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Paper Tag Rubicon
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Good point, so must everything from the 70's be ridiculed by today's standards and technology?
 

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Well we ARE talking about the media here.. they are nothing without sensationalizing everything. They love to make their points with ridiculously grandious statements.
 

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DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
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John Rogers said:
Must everything from the 70's be judged by today's standards and technology?
Preface, I didn't read the article yet.

For a realistic comparison, then versus now, did the '70s A-body then provide to its intended target market what that market segment wanted? Today, does the 2013+ Dart provide to its intended market segment what that market segment wants?

One can argue, given the slow start that Dart has had, that it initially didn't provide what customers in that segment want, but I am beginning to see them on the road here in sufficient quantities to tell me that someone's buying them now, and they don't look low-line enough to be rentals.

Part of the issue is that they're trying to market them as small cars, when they're not really small cars. For their external dimensions they're within an inch or two of the first-generation Stratus/Cirrus, not even down in Neon territory, which was one of the largest cars in the compact segment, and they dwarf their immediate predecessor in the Caliber. With the Avenger though, if they market them in their true segment then there'll be two mid-size Dodges for sale, not a compact and a mid-size.
 

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TWX said:
Preface, I didn't read the article yet.

For a realistic comparison, then versus now, did the '70s A-body then provide to its intended target market what that market segment wanted? Today, does the 2013+ Dart provide to its intended market segment what that market segment wants?

One can argue, given the slow start that Dart has had, that it initially didn't provide what customers in that segment want, but I am beginning to see them on the road here in sufficient quantities to tell me that someone's buying them now, and they don't look low-line enough to be rentals.

Part of the issue is that they're trying to market them as small cars, when they're not really small cars. For their external dimensions they're within an inch or two of the first-generation Stratus/Cirrus, not even down in Neon territory, which was one of the largest cars in the compact segment, and they dwarf their immediate predecessor in the Caliber. With the Avenger though, if they market them in their true segment then there'll be two mid-size Dodges for sale, not a compact and a mid-size.
They're definitely not small cars, Dart outweighs or is right there with a lot of the mid-size segment standards. Accord, Mazda 6, Sonata, Camry, all weigh about the same or less than Dart. The problem with marketing the Dart in their segment is Avenger... Dart does have more room inside than the compact cars too, but at the cost of that added weight. Basically, it's a mid-size car in every way, but can't be marketed there because of the Avenger.
 

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Longtimejeep said:
They need to do a software update to the dual clutch. If I'm not mistaken, same power train as 500L which gets good reviews.
How do the weights of the Dart and 500L compare when both are used in "similar" configurations? Is it a programming/brand preferences problem or a weight problem?
 

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Longtimejeep said:
They need to do a software update to the dual clutch. If I'm not mistaken, same power train as 500L which gets good reviews.
I had mine updated on Monday and it now feels like a different car - in a very good way.
 

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My 72 Dart was about as far as you can get from a "crappy compact". It had a very smooth ride, good handling, was comfortable and reliable. These people either never even sat in one, or are just copying someone else's smears. Totally destroys their credibility.
 

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Dad's '73 Dart Sport was certainly not crappy. Was it one of the best cars of the era? Probably not. It sure was reliable, and tough. The body seams were perfectly aligned -- well, at least until we were the middle car in a sandwich composed of a '72 full size Buick, us, and a '65 Pontiac Catalina. We were stopped. The Pontiac rear ended us (totaled it), shoved us into the Buick (caved in it's rear bumper and trunk, and pulled the quarters inward. Damage to our car was $177.00, half of which was paint. The unibody was tweaked enough that the door seams were off after that, though everything still operated fine. When we caved in the back of the Buick, it did flatten the chrome trim on the front point of our header panel.The rear tail light panel had to be replaced.
 

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people seem to think the old Dart is way bigger too.. which it isn't. It's a little longer, to hold a bigger engine up front.

 

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sebring96hbg said:
I had mine updated on Monday and it now feels like a different car - in a very good way.
Took away some of the lag... My mom thought she was gonna snap her neck off, she has iirc 2 fused vertebra stabilized be a titanium plate.
 

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Dart and Duster made for one heck of a drag car. THE RELIABILITY WAS DEFINATELY THERE.
 

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Do they also make a reference to the ubiquitous 1960s and 1970s Impala when they review the current Impala?
 

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valiant67 said:
Do they also make a reference to the ubiquitous 1960s and 1970s Impala when they review the current Impala?
No, but they do reference the last generation Impala when they review the current Impala. They also reference the last generation Dart when they review the Dart, that's the problem with reviving a nameplate after almost 40 years...
 

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eastcoaster said:
How do the weights of the Dart and 500L compare when both are used in "similar" configurations? Is it a programming/brand preferences problem or a weight problem?
Very similar weight, iirc.
 

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well, i have a 70 swinger and a 13 sxt....

comparing the two is purely just because of the name. does the 340 and pistol grip shifter compare to my 6 speed cue-ball shifter mated with a 1.4 turbo? hell no. do i ever find myself hypermiling in the swinger in order to maximize my fuel economy? hell no!

anyway, the dart is alright. has it's flaws, but mine is a 20 grand (cdn) car... i wouldn't expect it to be flawless. sure there are some things i would like to alter, most notably the weight (feels large, though it does keep it planted), the gearing (feel like i'm shifting six times when two of the gears are totally useless)...

little issues that might just be preference; seats, dash (in the lower trim lines), suspension crashes, base radio...

all the little things make me just feel that the car is a means of transport... not a fun little beast like the swinger.

only thing i disagree with is the rear wiper comment.... what?... a sedan.. and you want a rear wiper? just no to that one.
 

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In regards to the DDCT, I had a rental VW CC with Automated Manuel Trans and it was very different to drive. Highway was great, in town was a little twitchy? It was Ok for the most part, just would get confused at times(slow to down shift, somtimes feeling liek it was in Nuteral). The oddest feeling was creeping through parking lots, if you had stopped, and then wanted inch forward, there was long delay and instinct was to push the gas which would make for a lurch forward, not very smooth.

Overall, after the week I had it, I became familiar with how it worked and all was fine.

You would think the editors could/would understand that the DDCT is NOT an traditional automatic! Geezz
 
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