Looking for an old thread
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Joined
·
36,920 Posts
Maybe this one or the one linked in it?
http://www.allpar.com/forums/topic/43370-spirit-traveler-wiring/
http://www.allpar.com/forums/topic/43370-spirit-traveler-wiring/
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Exactly what I was looking for, thanks. But now for the question of the century, which never seemed to get answered in the original post... can it be done without an Ultradrive? The A413 has an electronic drive for the speedometer, so there is a distance sensor, and I believe this feeds the ECU. Is the output that the Traveler uses a matter of tapping pins on the ECU that aren't normally tapped, or is there actual internal hardware differences between the "premium" ECU and the "lowline" ECU (I have a "lowline" Spirit). The other question... Let's say we had a "premium" car that perhaps a younger sibling owned and the older sibling wanted the ECU to swap into his "lowline" car... What sort of functionality would this younger sibling be losing? The car in question is a '93 Spirit with a "Message Center" but NO Traveler. Power windows and door locks.
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
You can tap wires at the computer. I just put a 12-button navigator in my 84 Turbo Z, from an 87 car. I tapped power and grounds from the radio harness, and the speed sensor and fuel wires from the logic module. It works fine.
Currently I'm trying to figure out how to install the 12-button nav in my 93. The bus is different in the 93, but it has the same speed sensor and fuel gauge inputs, so all I need is the fuel injector signal to be the same range as the older cars. I'll confirm that by using a scope on the Turbo to see what the voltage range is, and whether the 93 has a similar output. Then I have to physically stuff it in the dash. I'm considering under the radio, which involves a little cutting of both the bezel and the flanges of the nav. Will post results.
Currently I'm trying to figure out how to install the 12-button nav in my 93. The bus is different in the 93, but it has the same speed sensor and fuel gauge inputs, so all I need is the fuel injector signal to be the same range as the older cars. I'll confirm that by using a scope on the Turbo to see what the voltage range is, and whether the 93 has a similar output. Then I have to physically stuff it in the dash. I'm considering under the radio, which involves a little cutting of both the bezel and the flanges of the nav. Will post results.
Joined
·
262 Posts
You should be able to do it without the Ultradrive. My old 92 Spirit ES Turbo had the travler in it and it was the 413 auto.
I heard it's alot harder to but a navigator in the 90 and up Daytonas, and Lebarons since the 90 and up navigators recived all the information through the body computer.
I heard it's alot harder to but a navigator in the 90 and up Daytonas, and Lebarons since the 90 and up navigators recived all the information through the body computer.
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
The ones before that received their info from the logic module, essentially the same thing, same location. That's where I tapped into the signals for my 84 Turbo Z.
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Your '93 is the TBI car, right Bob? If you could, do you think you could take a look at the rad support tag at the highline/lowline spot? I've heard there are differences between the computers. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes, but I just want to be sure. I'm interested to see how this turns out for you, seeing as I'm trying to do (essentially) the same thing.
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
Some BCMs are for premium lighting packages, etc. For instance, my 92 had a feature where the headlights turn off one minute after the ignition is turned off, so you don't forget and kill your battery. The 93 has fewer options and doesn't have this feature. It also came without power locks, and some wires at the BCM are not populated.
The biggest challenge will be where to install the navigator. Not quite enough height and depth at the "Daytona" trim strip across the top of the dash. So I'm looking at the bezel, but the bottom slot is narrow and won't be readable from the driver's position, so I'm looking at the slot above it, below the radio.
The biggest challenge will be where to install the navigator. Not quite enough height and depth at the "Daytona" trim strip across the top of the dash. So I'm looking at the bezel, but the bottom slot is narrow and won't be readable from the driver's position, so I'm looking at the slot above it, below the radio.
Joined
·
36,920 Posts
Even then it's not that hard, just run a twisted pair of wires to carry the BUS signal from the data port above the driver's left foot if the connector isn't already in the car.
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
Make sure you call it the AA body - A body is the Valiant/Dart Duster/Demon.
In my case, I'm putting an older nav in a newer car. The older nav doesn't have the bus communication, so I'm going to see if I can pick up the fuel injector signal from the BCM, and if it's the same as in the older cars. The fuel gauge and speed sensor signals, and power and grounds, and illumination are not an issue.
BTW, the pin connections for an 87 nav are not the same pinout as shown in the 1984 FSM.
In my case, I'm putting an older nav in a newer car. The older nav doesn't have the bus communication, so I'm going to see if I can pick up the fuel injector signal from the BCM, and if it's the same as in the older cars. The fuel gauge and speed sensor signals, and power and grounds, and illumination are not an issue.
BTW, the pin connections for an 87 nav are not the same pinout as shown in the 1984 FSM.
I was able to pick up the data buss from inside the vehicle on a blue connector (IIRC) next to or near the parking brake release handle. I never had to go through the firewall. I put a JY Traveler in the 1991 base 3 speed Dodge Spirit.
If you can find all the original posts by JFH, you will get all the information. He explained exactly where to tap in and how to run a twisted pair wire (that you make yourself) from the blue connector to the Traveler connector. Plus he had a list of all the color codes. Hopefully, you cut the connector out of the wiring harness (i.e. a pigtail with connector) from the vehicle that you obtained the Traveler from. That makes it much easier.
If you can find all the original posts by JFH, you will get all the information. He explained exactly where to tap in and how to run a twisted pair wire (that you make yourself) from the blue connector to the Traveler connector. Plus he had a list of all the color codes. Hopefully, you cut the connector out of the wiring harness (i.e. a pigtail with connector) from the vehicle that you obtained the Traveler from. That makes it much easier.
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
Well, that's not optimal.
I put a scope on the fuel injector signal from the logic module to the 12-button EVIC in my 1984 Daytona Turbo Z. Turns out, the signal varies in duty cycle at idle, but is generally 60 ms on, 80 ms off, approximately.
The amplitude is only 0.4 volts.
![]()
In my 93 Daytona, the data is passed through a serial bus from the body control module. The only place I can pick up the fuel injector signal is at the injector itself (or at the other end of the wire, at the PCM). The amplitude there will be 12 volts, since it switches from a 12V power feed to ground.
So unless I can think of an easy, clever way to scale the pulse down to a 0.4 volt amplitude to feed the EVIC, I won't be able to install it in the '93. Or at least, not have use of the instantaneous mpg reading, and perhaps not the average mpg reading (the latter depends on whether it uses the fuel gauge reading exclusively, or a combination of that and the EFI signal).
Then there's still the problem of how and where to stuff the EVIC into the dash - either in the center stack, or behind the Daytona trim strip across the top of the dash, from center to passenger side.
I put a scope on the fuel injector signal from the logic module to the 12-button EVIC in my 1984 Daytona Turbo Z. Turns out, the signal varies in duty cycle at idle, but is generally 60 ms on, 80 ms off, approximately.
The amplitude is only 0.4 volts.
In my 93 Daytona, the data is passed through a serial bus from the body control module. The only place I can pick up the fuel injector signal is at the injector itself (or at the other end of the wire, at the PCM). The amplitude there will be 12 volts, since it switches from a 12V power feed to ground.
So unless I can think of an easy, clever way to scale the pulse down to a 0.4 volt amplitude to feed the EVIC, I won't be able to install it in the '93. Or at least, not have use of the instantaneous mpg reading, and perhaps not the average mpg reading (the latter depends on whether it uses the fuel gauge reading exclusively, or a combination of that and the EFI signal).
Then there's still the problem of how and where to stuff the EVIC into the dash - either in the center stack, or behind the Daytona trim strip across the top of the dash, from center to passenger side.
Joined
·
36,920 Posts
I am sure this model of LeBaron one would work in the 1993 Daytona. it works in 1990-1995 LeBarons:
![]()
This is the Traveler, it has the basic functions of average and instant MPG.
And here's the wiring info:
http://members.tripo...5/traveler.html
The Navigator below has more functions and requires a lot more wiring, as well as an underhoood node:
![]()
This is the Traveler, it has the basic functions of average and instant MPG.
And here's the wiring info:
http://members.tripo...5/traveler.html
The Navigator below has more functions and requires a lot more wiring, as well as an underhoood node:
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
Neither of these will be available around here. I need the clock function, and want all the 12-button functions.
The 90 or 91+ FSM makes mention of a CCD based 12 button navigator that would work in Bob Lincoln's case. I have yet been able to ever find one. I'd like one myself.
Marcos, if your interested in selling your 6 button navigator, I'd be interested in purchasing it.
Marcos, if your interested in selling your 6 button navigator, I'd be interested in purchasing it.
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
I'm going to wire up a level shifter that translates the voltage to a level that the EVIC can accept.
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
I'm talking about the fuel injector signal, not the fuel gauge. The fuel gauge reading was inaccurate, yes - it read 11.2 gallons used, when I topped it off at 10.2 gallons. That was a measure of the change in resistance between fill-ups. You can't compensate for part of the span without calibrating the whole span, gallons full vs resistance reading. And it probably won't be linear. Adding just a resistor will only address part of the span.
But that's only used for the average mpg readings. The instantaneous mpg reading comes from the speed sensor vs the fuel injector signal. The injector signal used in 1984 is only a 0.4V amplitude square wave. The 1993 does not have this signal from the BCM, it's embedded info in the bus signal. So I need to create a 0.4V scaled-down injector signal from the PCM's injector firing. You can't do that with a resistor. It will be a voltage divider feeding the 0.4V signal into an op amp to keep it squared up.
But that's only used for the average mpg readings. The instantaneous mpg reading comes from the speed sensor vs the fuel injector signal. The injector signal used in 1984 is only a 0.4V amplitude square wave. The 1993 does not have this signal from the BCM, it's embedded info in the bus signal. So I need to create a 0.4V scaled-down injector signal from the PCM's injector firing. You can't do that with a resistor. It will be a voltage divider feeding the 0.4V signal into an op amp to keep it squared up.
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!