Allpar Forums banner

21 - 40 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
On my Traveler the fuel gauge wire is only used for the DTE (Distance To Empty) function. Average MPG is consumption based on injector pulse width and distance travelled based on the speed/distance sensor. That function (Avg MPG) is really pretty accurate. The DTE is not very accurate. When I get to about 25 miles to empty, I actually have about 50 and it seems that the unit continues to stay in the 20 to 25 DTE for a long time.

The instantaneous MPG is the most useful function to monitor. You can find the "sweet" spot where your car will get 40 to 45 MPG and you can observe how fast it drops off between 65 and 75 MPH. It is a pretty steep drop when you get to 75 MPH.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
The fuel gauge wire also tells how many gallons used, and it's high by 10% in my car, two tankfuls in a row.

That's not good for me if the EFI pulse also determines the average mpg, if I can't set up that input. Do you know for sure that average mpg is derived this way? I figured I can pull that contact out on my 84 and see what functionality I lose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Alright, I have the Traveler in hand now. So that's step one. I poked around in my car today to look for connectors (they weren't there). No problem, I know of a '93 Lebaron sedan in a local pick and pull with a message center, I can get the connectors off that. Unfortunately, that's where the trouble starts...
-Does the non-Traveler computer use BOTH plugs? There's a large grey connector for the message center section (14 pin) and a set of contacts for a smaller connector for the Traveler itself. From what I can tell looking at diagrams, both displays use both connectors, but I don't understand what the message center would use the engine data and other feeds on that second plug for.
I also want to get the message center to give me information about the headlights, doors, etc. I know there's a bit of wiring involved but I'm planning to do a bit of work on the car in the spring, so I want to get it all done while I'm in there. I know I need a lamp outage module. I have a metal box behind the passenger kickpanel that has some wires going into it. It has Chrysler P/N P05266292, S/N TYT2844P1267. Can someone (probably ImperialCrown?) verify that this is a lamp outage module?
My wiring diagrams indicate a 5-pin connector and a 14-pin connector should be on this box. They are from 1992 and my car is a '95. I have a 10-pin connector with only the four corner pins wired (the prongs on the box are a mixture of wide and narrow) and a 21-pin connector with pins 2,3,5,7,9,14,15,16 and 17 wired. If anyone could shed some light on what these are (maybe someone has a '95 wiring diagram?) I would be much obliged.
The last two questions are just general wiring-related.
-How bad of an idea is it to use "suitcase connectors" (the kind that clamp on to the new wire and cut through the insulation of the old wire, making contact between the two with the metal blade that cuts the insulation) to make splices? I understand the best way is to solder, but that's also a lot of work. If that's what has to be done, I will do it, but if I can do pretty well in less time...
-Is it true that Chrysler's connectors can be opened and have more pins added to them if need be? I had heard this about the ECU connector, what about internal connectors?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
Without re-reading everything, I'm assuming that you are putting a traveler/message center in your Spirit. Hopefully you have the unit from another Spirit or Acclaim since that should be a perfect fit in-place of the cubby hole tray (or what ever it is called :) ). I believe a LeBaron unit has different physical dimensions, although it is possible that the connector may be the same on the back of the unit.

I did put a combination Message Center/Traveler in my 91 Spirit (Transplanted from an 89 or 90 Spirit with a factory unit). I cut the wiring harness off the donor car so that I had the pigtails and the connector. In fact, I made sure to go way back in the harness so my pigtail had plenty of wire. I only used the Traveler part of the message center since my car did not have the wiring, and extra door switches, etc. As I recall, the Traveler portion must receive a ground wire from the message center connector in order for it to work.
For the data buss, I used two pieces of 22 or 24 gauge hookup wire (like telephone household wire) and twisted the wires together. You should be able to pick up the data buss on a blue connector right above the brake release cable. That is a transmission diagnostic connector for the 4 speed unit. I believe that was wired in to the PCM on almost all cars whether or not they had the 3 speed or 4 speed. Mine is pretty much a base with the 3 speed.
Again, if memory serves me right, you pick up the power and light intensity for the Traveler right off the connector that goes to the radio. Then you pick up the gas tank sender signal from the wiring harness that goes to the instrument console. For me, the job was pretty easy, but I had the instructions from poster JFH. You should be able to find all that old info. There were a lot of EEK enthusiasts doing this mod about 7-10 years ago when the self-serve yards were full of AA body cars. Likewise, a few were doing this on the AJ bodies as well, but the instructions were slightly different (mainly the color of the wires).
You could probably use the tee-tap connectors to tap into the different wires. I simply sliced a bit of the insulation of the the wires that I tapped into and soldered and taped these, but I'm a little old fashion and there was a time I didn't trust those crimp taps. :).
Good luck with your project.

To Bob L: Sorry I missed your post about Inst. and Avg MPG calculations. I know for the late 80's to mid 90's (and later) vehicles, the calculation is made from the injector pulse width. With a constant fuel pressure and known nozzle size on the injector(s), the pulse width determines the fuel being used at any instant. The average MPG is a continuous integration process at a high sampling rate and the fuel usage part of the equation is pretty accurate. Of course, the other bit of information is the distance, so to be accurate, OEM tires, correct transmission gearing (OEM), and a properly functioning distance sensor is a must (or simply, the correct pinion factor).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
John-- Thanks for the locations. I HATE digging around in the car looking for things, was absolutely not looking forward to that part of the job. I think you posted the original link to JFH's thread, so two thanks, really.
Hopefully going to the JY tomorrow to get the connectors. I want to make sure I don't need to grab the outage module too.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
John, my distance calculation in the EVIC is accurate, I've checked it against mileage markers and GPS. The fact that both 'fuel used' and 'average mpg' are off by 10% tells me that it's not reading the sending unit accurately.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
Bob Lincoln said:
John, my distance calculation in the EVIC is accurate, I've checked it against mileage markers and GPS. The fact that both 'fuel used' and 'average mpg' are off by 10% tells me that it's not reading the sending unit accurately.
Bob, Are we talking about the 84 Turbo? or one of your newer 90's vehicles?

In 84, the methods for determining fuel usage may have been different. Isn't the fuel pressure somewhat modulated by the vacuum controlled regulator? I'm really not familiar with how the instantaneous fuel consumption was calculated on the mid 80's Turbo setups.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,983 Posts
It's the 84 Turbo Z.

It has a dedicated signal wire from the fuel injector firing, from the logic module. This doesn't exist for 1993; the data is embedded in the serial bus. And yes, there is a vacuum-controlled FPR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
In case anyone is interested, the Message Center does not use the second plug, only the 14-pin. The wiring diagrams are misleading on this issue.
Still looking for information on what I presume to be the outage module on my '95. I grabbed the module from the '93 LeBaron at the junkyard, so I can do a retrofit and use my diagrams if nobody has any information, but the less splicing, the better.
Also, I know I've probably brought this up before, but Ferris Brothers Auto Salvage in Salem, Mass. would be my go-to for anyone looking for EEK parts in northern Mass. I have had little to no luck finding these cars anywhere else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
Well I know this topic seems pretty well dead, but I am going forward with the wire-up tomorrow! I'll be sure to take pictures and document it all. The Traveler is already tested and is giving me the "F1-1" message on a bench supply (err... battery charger). I did a light check on all the Message Center bulbs and they seem to be working properly as well. The only thing that side of the unit is waiting on is what I suspect to be the outage module. I'm goign to repost the codes here:
P/N P05266292, S/N TYT2844P1267
Hopefully, someone can help me out on this. If not, I have a box that I know is an outage module that I can put in, but I would rather save the work if I can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
Here's what I've found so far:
The module is fairly consistently referenced as "unknown module" when I search it by p/n. I've heard ABS controller as well, but what makes the most sense is that the device is a controller for the power seatbelt. That explains why it doesn't match the outage module I have. If someone whose library has Alldata could get me a wiring diagram for the powered seatbelt for a '95 Spirit (my diagrams predate the requirement and my public library doesn't have an Alldata subscription, or any information as to what the wires going to this module are from, I would really appreciate it. Essentially, I'm trying to figure out if the module is a lamp outage module with seatbelt functionality tacked on, or if it has absolutely nothing to do with that. There seem to be an awful lot of wires going into the module if all it does is control the seatbelt motor and the solenoid that unlocks the belt carrier (I don't know what else to call it), with input from the ignition and passenger side door.
 

·
Part Connoisseur
Joined
·
2,431 Posts
That module is called a seat belt control module. It was only used in 94 and 95.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
Alright, thanks for confirming that for me. I was a bit confused about the ABS bit, since both of the OEM drive axles had tone wheels, but no sensors. Am I correct in assuming that this module has nothing to do with lamp outage and that I'm going to have to stuff the module I have in somewhere?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
Well, here's the status report:
The Traveler does not work as of right now. The unit lights up, dims with the headlights, gives me the F1-1 error message, and then lets me cycle through everything once I push step to clear the F1-1. Anything that depends on the data bus is blank (instantaneous/average mpg, odometer). The DTE is giving me some number which must correspond to 0V on the fuel gauge wire, because I haven't hooked that up yet! I've tried switching the data bus wires to no avail, still F1-1. I used very heavy wire, 12ga, for the twisted pair, as that was all I had on hand. The connections are a bit shoddy at the transmission connector; I mangled a spade terminal until it clamped on to the pin fairly tightly. I'm going to take another crack at it tomorrow. What I'm considering doing is making the twisted pair out of telephone wire, since I do have a lot of that. Not something that I would trust carrying the current to power the unit, but I think they should be fine carrying data... after all, that's what they were intended to do. I'm planning on clipping the wires at the diagnostic connector, since I have a 3 speed, and I won't ever use that, and running the pair up to the Traveler. If that doesn't work... well I don't know what the next step will be. From that other thread, it seems like F1-1 could mean either bad (or no) data, which would make sense, as I got the same message on the bench last night, or that the Traveler could be borked, which also makes sense... Any input from anyone who knows more about this stuff than I do would be greatly appreciated. I wish JFH was still around, people seemed to have a lot of success with his input.
 

·
Part Connoisseur
Joined
·
2,431 Posts
Try connecting the data bus wires to the corresponding wires at the PCM instead. Do you need the pinout for that connector?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Got some codes from the Traveler, after holding down both buttons at the same time:
Yesterday I was getting C0 d3 (which I thought stood for "CODE") and then F1-1. I got what I remember as C115 d3 this afternoon, but I can't seem to get a repeat of that. I'm now getting C14 d3. Does anybody have any information on what these codes mean?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
I used telephone wire, individual 24 or 26 guage wires and twisted them(lightly) together. The data buss carries virtually no current. On my 91 the transmission connector had the data buss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
That's what I have too. As far as I can tell, I have it wired correctly. I tried swapping the wires just to be sure, and I'm still getting the F1-1. Plus, the unit is spitting out codes at me, different ones every time. They change if I have the "C *" screen up on the Traveler, accessed by pressing STEP after the initial F1-1, and then holding down both buttons. The vehicle is operational now, and that hasn't made one scrap of difference. I assume that the bus is OK, but now I'm not so sure, was there any major change in how the bus works from 1989 to 1995 on these vehicles, like the one that Bob Lincoln was up against?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
If you have a Traveler unit with the message center (Navigator), then be aware that the appropriate ground on the message center connector must be grounded or the Traveler portion will not work.

In my car I have both connectors, even though I am only using the Traveler part of the unit, but on the message center connector, I had to ground one of the wires to make the Traveler part work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
I'm doing the same thing as you are John-- I have a combination unit. I grounded it through the Message Center connection. The Traveler is installed in the car and is giving me an F1-1 code whenever I start the car. I can cycle through the displays, except all of them except the DTE and elapsed time are zero.
 
21 - 40 of 65 Posts
Top