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Discussion Starter #41
Hey All,
Saturday Morning Update:

Went out this morning at 8:30 a.m. to see if Lorrie would start&run.

Checked the Battery = 12.31 Volts.
Checked the continuity of the Fuses. They were fine.
Gave the Accelerator a 2-second push, and a 2-second release.
Turned on the Run Switch, and activated the Start Switch. Lorrie cranked, but didn't start.
Gave her a short shot of Start Fluid, and hit the Start Switch, and she started right up!

Warmed the Engine up, and checked the Transmission Fluid Level. It was right on.

Checked the Charge Rate. It was 14.13 Volts.

Drove to see neighbor Robert, and back.

Got back and shut down, and then checked the Battery, and it was at 14.01 Volts.

Lorrie's Speedometer Cable needs lubrication.

Am also going to have to take the Dash Panel loose and see why there is no Brights and no Indicator Light when the Headlights are on.

Can't figure why Lorrie won't start without Start Fluid. Am going to have to figure that out.

Anyway, at least Lorrie IS starting&running. Will have to see if she will make the trip to and from Livingston, but am not going to do THAT today. Am not feeling too well. Got a bit over-tired the other day putting Ms. American up on the Jack Stands. Need to rest up from that.

Hope everyone is doing well.

JC
 

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If starter fluid is needed, you may have to hit the gas pedal one time to set the choke and a second and even a third time to put extra fuel in. If starter fluid is being needed, it is simply a more explosive gas to help suck the fuel into the cylinders. I have had many a carb'd engine which required three to four taps on the gas pedal to start. Is it right? Who knows, but if it starts the engine what does it matter? The smaller taps keeps the vacuum up on the engine for the suction but allows a little extra squirt from the accelerator pump to help. Which is also why holding the pedal all the way to the floor is then used to clear a flooded engine. The squirter may be just a little lean when the engine is cold, which is better than too rich when cold.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
dana44 said:
If starter fluid is needed, you may have to hit the gas pedal one time to set the choke and a second and even a third time to put extra fuel in. If starter fluid is being needed, it is simply a more explosive gas to help suck the fuel into the cylinders. I have had many a carb'd engine which required three to four taps on the gas pedal to start. Is it right? Who knows, but if it starts the engine what does it matter? The smaller taps keeps the vacuum up on the engine for the suction but allows a little extra squirt from the accelerator pump to help. Which is also why holding the pedal all the way to the floor is then used to clear a flooded engine. The squirter may be just a little lean when the engine is cold, which is better than too rich when cold.
Hey Mr. D44,
The problem has been that if she is given any gas, she floods. And once she is flooded holding the Throttle open doesn't seem to help. BUT, it appears to all be a matter of proper adjustment. Have turned up the Cold Idle to 800 RPM and the Hot Idle to 600 RPM. Hopefully we are moving in the right direction. Will see if she will start tomorrow morning without any Starter Fluid. Time will tell.

Supposed to rain here starting at 3:00 a.m. but the coming week is looking good.

Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the interest and response.

Be well.

JC
 

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Not a third full pedal, just a little tap if it almost starts.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Hey All,
Sunday Morning Update:

Rain let up. Went out and took the Air Cleaner off of the Bendix Stromberg. Gave the Throttle a one pump stroke by hand to see if the Choke Cam would set. It did.

Alright... So there we were... Choke Plate completely closed... Fast Idle Cam in the proper position... Single pump of fuel in the Intake Manifold... Turned on the Run Switch... Activated the Start Switch... Engine turned over twice and LORRIE STARTED RIGHT UP!

No Start Fluid... No Throttle... The MIGHTY 225 Slant Six went to the 800 RPM Idle... Let her warm up... Blipped the Throttle... The Fast Idle Cam released the Cold Idle Speed Screw... And Lorrie settled into the 550 RPM Idle, pretty as you please! Turned off the Run Switch... The Engine just quits...

And I said: "Thank you Ross (Ross is a very nice guy who had taken the time to go step by step with me to get to this point). And thank YOU Lorrie."

So will do the same thing later this afternoon, just to make sure that it will happen again. If the same thing happens, am going to do it again tomorrow morning, and if it happens one more time, will reinstall the Removable Floor, and the Engine Cabinetry.

The next thing that NEEDS to be done is to disconnect the Battery, take the Dash Panel loose, and see WHY the Headlight Brights aren't functioning properly.

Once that is remedied, am thinking that Lorrie will be reliable as the Daily Driver while Ms. American gets everything done to her that needs doing.

She needs her Steering linkage rebuilt. Have to find out why she has started doing the hula. Get the Windows back to rolling up and down.

Want to thank all here at Allpar for their help and suggestions. It is VERY much appreciated.

The future looks bright ahead.

Am sitting here smiling!

JC
 

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Since you say you have an issue with flooding, double check the Choke pull off setting. It's job is to slightly open up the choke at first vacuum caused when the engine starts to fire up. It is vacuum controled but the setting is very important to stop the engine from flooding right at the start.
 

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I was just thinking about that myself. The dashpot is supposed to open it what, 1/8th inch, to which they recommend using a drill bit to set it properly.
 

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Not dashpot which is to slow the closing of the throttle to avoid stalling, but the choke pull off which is mounted on the side of most carbs and will have an adjustable link to the choke plate. Setting is variable depending on which carb you have.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Hey All,
Monday Morning Update:

Temperature 40 degrees.

Gave Lorrie's Accelerator a single pump. Choke was closed. Fast Idle Screw on the High Step of the Cam. Cranked the Engine. LORRIE WOULDN'T START!

Checked the Fuses. They are all fine. Pulled Number 5 Spark Plug. Doesn't seem to have any gasoline on it.

Gave the Carburetor a shot of Start Fluid. Didn't even make Lorrie cough.

Will try again when it warms up.

Don't know what else to do.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter #50
68RT said:
Since you say you have an issue with flooding, double check the Choke pull off setting. It's job is to slightly open up the choke at first vacuum caused when the engine starts to fire up. It is vacuum controlled but the setting is very important to stop the engine from flooding right at the start.
Hey Mr. 68RT
Lorrie's Bendix Stromberg Model W Single Venturi Carburetor doesn't have a Choke Pull Off. The Choke Plate's Shaft is offset, and the Choke Plate "weather vanes" at first vacuum when the Engine fires up, which it doesn't seem to want to do when the ambient temperature is below 50 degrees.

Anyway, thanks for the thought.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter #51
68RT said:
Not dashpot which is to slow the closing of the throttle to avoid stalling, but the choke pull off which is mounted on the side of most carbs and will have an adjustable link to the choke plate. Setting is variable depending on which carb you have.
Hey Mr. 68RT,
You're right about the difference between a Dashpot and the Choke Pull Off (which also has a diaphragm). Alas, Lorrie's Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor has neither a Dashpot nor a Choke Pull Off.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Hey All,
Monday Noon Update:

Temperature is up to 52 degrees. Working INSIDE Lorrie is nice and warm because the sun shines through the Windshield heating the interior and Lorrie is well insulated.

So this morning:

Checked the continuity between the "+" Terminal of the Battery to the Fuse Panel. It is good.

Checked the Fuses. They are ALL good.

Checked the continuity between the Fuse Panel Common to the "IGN" Fitting on the Wire that connects to the FBO System VR-1 Electronic Voltage Regulator through the Run Switch, with the Wire removed from the VR-1. It is good.

Checked the Voltage between the Fuse Panel Common to the "IGN" Terminal of the FBO System VR-1 Electronic Voltage Regulator through the Run Switch, with the Wire removed from the VR-1. It was 12.12 Volts.

Checked the continuity between the Fuse Panel Common to the "B" Terminal of the NAPA Echlin TP45 Control Module through the Run Switch. It is good.

Checked the Voltage between the Fuse Panel Common to the "B" Terminal of the NAPA Echlin TP45 Control Module through the Run Switch. It was 12.12 Volts.

Pulled Number 6 Spark Plug, and found the Spark Plug's Porcelain to be BLACK and WET with gasoline. Dried it off and put it back into the Spark Plug Wire's Boot and put it in contact with a ground. Turned on the Run Switch, activated the Start Switch, and got a BIG, FAT Spark.

Removed ALL of Lorrie's NGK ZFR5N Spark Plugs gapped to 0.035":

Number 6 Spark Plug's Porcelain was BLACK and WET.
Number 5 Spark Plug's Porcelain was White and dry.
Number 4 Spark Plug's Porcelain was White and dry.
Number 3 Spark Plug's Porcelain was White and dry.
Number 2 Spark Plug's Porcelain was White and dry.
Number 1 Spark Plug's Porcelain was BLACK and SOOTY.

Am surmising that had the Number 6 Spark Plug not been wet, it would have been sooty like the Number 1 Spark Plug.

Noticed that when trying to start Lorrie this morning, that while cranking, there was a goodly amount of flow in the Plastic Fuel Filter, an indication that there was a goodly amount of gasoline going into the Fuel Bowl of the Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor.

Did a careful inspection of the Carburetor and found that the Gasket around and between the Fuel Bowl Body and the Air Horn/Lid Assembly was wet. Also found a small amount of fuel on the outside and on the underside of the Fuel Bowl.

All of the Spark Plugs are out, lying on Lorrie's Driver's Seat in the direct sunlight to dry them.

Turned the Engine with the Starter and got a goodly amount of gasoline vapor odor out of the Spark Plug Holes.

Am more and more coming to the conclusion that the Bendix Stromberg Carburetor is emptying the contents of the Fuel Bowl into the Intake Manifold overnight.

The front of the Engine sits higher than the rear of the Engine. Thus the Number 6 Spark Plug is getting drenched because the gasoline is running DOWN the Number 6 Intake Manifold Runner into the Number Six Cylinder.

The Gasket between the Fuel Bowl Body and the Air Horn/Lid Assembly is wet because the Float level is too high.

It is possible that the Fuel Inlet Needle&Seat is not consistently staunching the flow of gasoline into the Fuel Bowl.

It is possible that a Fuel Passage in the Carburetor is clogged causing the siphoning of fuel from the Fuel Bowl into the Intake Manifold overnight.

It is possible that the Reluctor/Pickup Gap is out of adjustment in the Mopar Electronic Distributor causing it to not put out a strong enough trigger signal to the Control Module when the temperature is down below 40 degrees.

It is possible that as Don Gould at FBO Systems says that the Mopar Electronic Distributor is not well suited to trigger a GM Style Control Module.

Am going to go out and turn the Engine with the Spark Plugs removed some more, a few more times, and then reinstall the Spark Plugs.

Suspect that the Engine will start because of it not being flooded.

Don't have any explanation for Number 1 Spark Plug's Porcelain being Black and SOOTY when Numbers 2, 3, 4, and 5, are all WHITE. Also, it is NOT oily. The SOOT is from an overly rich fuel situation.

Why Cylinders 1 and 6 would be overly rich while Cylinders 2, 3, 4, and 5, are WHITE mystifies me.

Am thinking that the Bendix Stromberg Carburetor needs to be removed, taken apart, cleaned, the Float Adjusted, and a NEW Gasket cut and installed. And maybe a NEW Fuel Inlet Needle&Seat Assembly acquired and installed.

Also, the Float may be saturated.

The thought also crossed my mind that maybe Lorrie is just not a morning person, but is possibly fancies herself as a "Lady of the Evening"! :)

Are we anywhere NEAR an explanation here?

Any insights, considering the above observations are welcome.

Be well.

JC
 

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Time to pull the carb apart, a sunk float will allow too much fuel in and continue to have this problem. If the choke is set too tight, as in not a small amount of air able to enter while the choke is on, it will suck fuel directly into the engine through the venturii and cause a problem, too. Since you have pretty much alleviated all other options, the carb is the next step in getting her to run in cold weather, soot is an indication of way too much fuel, coking up basically and not burning. Fumes burn, fuel doesn't, so if the carb is dumping raw fuel and ending up in cylinder 5 and 6 mostly, they will be sooty. If the float has sunk, definitely time for a rebuild, too high, definitely time to adjust properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
dana44 said:
Time to pull the carb apart, a sunk float will allow too much fuel in and continue to have this problem. If the choke is set too tight, as in not a small amount of air able to enter while the choke is on, it will suck fuel directly into the engine through the venturii and cause a problem, too. Since you have pretty much alleviated all other options, the carb is the next step in getting her to run in cold weather, soot is an indication of way too much fuel, coking up basically and not burning. Fumes burn, fuel doesn't, so if the carb is dumping raw fuel and ending up in cylinder 5 and 6 mostly, they will be sooty. If the float has sunk, definitely time for a rebuild, too high, definitely time to adjust properly.
Hey Mr. D44
Have already taken the Bendix Stromberg Carburetor off of Lorrie's Intake Manifold and it is presently sitting in my "clean room". Have taken the top (hereinafter referred to as the Air Horn Assembly) off of the Body. Am going to be cutting a NEW Gasket for it. In the meantime, have the unit sitting level on a pad of paper towels, and am going to fill the Fuel Bowl, and let it sit overnight to see if it leaks down.

The Float is not saturated or sunken. and it is NOT adjusted too high. The Fuel Bowl is about HALF full, and the float is sitting right on top of the liquid. Am going to remove and carefully inspect the Fuel Inlet/Needle&Seat Assembly to see if it is alright.

This particular Carburetor is quite "rare", having only been used on the Slant Six for one year (have heard variously that it was either 1962 or 1963). As a consequence, there is just no information about it anywhere on the WWW, except for one article by Dan Stern (Slant Six Dan) over on the Slant Six Forum, from whom, incidentally, THIS particular unit was acquired. The point being that I don't know WHERE the Float should be set, and there doesn't seem to be any rebuild kits available anywhere.

Daniel says that except for the Gasket, the Bendix Stromberg Model WW rebuild kit has all the same parts. Not that this unit NEEDS rebuilding. But am going to be giving it a thorough cleaning, and blowing out the passages before reassembling it with the NEWLY cut Gasket.

The Choke Plate is adjusted to where it goes "lightly" closed, and at the first sign of vacuum in the Intake Manifold, it opens about 1/8". It is functioning PERFECTLY.

You're right about soot being an indication of an over rich fuel mixture. But Mr. D, what puzzles me about this is that ONLY Cylinders 1 and 6 (not 5 and 6) are sooty. I can understand 6 being sooty as it sits the lowest of all the Cylinders, and the Number 6 Intake Runner is going to have fuel running DOWN-HILL to Cylinder 6. But how in the hell is Number 1 Cylinder getting too much gasoline? Gas runs DOWN-HILL, not UP-HILL!

Anyway, everything you mentioned is spot on. The only problem is that everything you mentioned seems to be in perfect working order.

Had earlier this year rebuilt and installed a 600 CFM Autolite 4100 1.12 Four-Venturi Carburetor on Ms. American's 390 P-Code FE V8, and one of thing things that needed special attention with THAT unit was the tee-nincy bleed passages. If one of them got clogged, it could result in the Fuel in the Fuel Bowl being siphoned into the Intake Manifold. Don't know that THAT is possible with this Bendix Stromberg unit, but am going to pay special attention to those kind of passages during the cleaning and reassembly of this unit.

Anyway, will keep you updated on any progress.

Thanks for the response and suggestions. They are VERY much appreciated.

JC
 

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OK. Model W Stromberg. Do you have a plastic insulator between the carb and the intake manifold? Sometimes helps with afterboil (Fuel boiling over after engine shuts down). Make sure that the bowl vent valve is open at idle. This unit uses a built in choke piston instead of an external diaphram (See choke piston cylinder arrow) I do not think that it is adjustable on this model and probably is working as you describe.

http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14320
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Hey All,
Tuesday Morning Update:

Got the Gasket for the Bendix Stromberg Carburetor cut.

Filled the Fuel Bowl with gasoline. Set it on a brown paper bag. There IS a slight amount of gasoline leaking, but it isn't into the Venturi. It is from a Screw under the Fuel Bowl. Will make a NEW Gasket for THAT Screw.

Am going to take the unit apart, clean it and reassemble it. Then reinstall it on Lorrie's Intake Manifold.

Will let you know how it goes.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter #57
68RT said:
OK. Model W Stromberg. Do you have a plastic insulator between the carb and the intake manifold? Sometimes helps with afterboil (Fuel boiling over after engine shuts down). Make sure that the bowl vent valve is open at idle. This unit uses a built in choke piston instead of an external diaphram (See choke piston cylinder arrow) I do not think that it is adjustable on this model and probably is working as you describe.

http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14320
Hey Mr. 68RT,
Have seen the Bendix Stromberg Carburetor called a: Model W; Model WA-3; and a Model WA-3-219. But have not found any parts or rebuild kits for it, though many of the parts for the Bendix Stromberg Model WW (which has two-venturis) are shared with the Model W .

Yes, there is a Phenolic Spacer between the Carburetor and the Intake Manifold.

Have the unit removed from the vehicle, partially disassembled, and have cut a NEW Gasket with which to put it back together once it is cleaned.

The Choke is working PERFECTLY.

The article you referenced is by Daniel Stern (Slant Six Dan), from whom Lorrie's Carburetor was acquired. When he sold me the unit, he said that he had one on a car that he sold, and would have removed the Carburetor, but didn't have the time before the customer showed up. He said it ran GREAT, but on his photo album, he made the statement that he could never get the Bendix Stomberg to run properly. A case of buyer beware.

Anyway, am in the process of disassembling the unit, and am going to clean it, reassemble it with the NEW Gasket.

Will keep you updated.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Hey All,
Tuesday Afternoon Update:

The Bendix Stromberg Model W (also known as a Model WA-3) has been cleaned, given a NEW Gasket, and reassembled.

It is sitting on the bench ready to be installed even as I type.

Have been up since before last Midnight cutting the NEW Gasket, and spending the rest of the time cleaning the parts and assembling the unit.

Am not in any condition to go put it on Lorrie's Intake Manifold.

Am going to rest for the remainder of the day and put it all together tomorrow mid-morning.

There were no leaks into the Venturi.

Will let you all know how it goes tomorrow.

Be well.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Hey All,
Wednesday Morning Update:

Am rested up after taking yesterday afternoon off after finishing assembling Lorrie's Bendix Stromberg Carburetor. Am going to be installing it today and seeing if Lorrie will start&run. If she will, am going to go do some grocery shopping.

If Lorrie doesn't start&run, am going to have to have my welder neighbor come with his trunk and we'll move Lorrie out from behind Ms. American, and then get Ms. American off of the Jack Stands and Ramps to go do the weekly errands, even though she is not doing well. At least she will start&run.

Was thinking last night that not only is Lorrie the ONLY Dodge P200 Postal Van left in the world, she is apparently the only vehicle with a Bendix Stromberg Model WA-3 Carburetor that Google finds on the whold World Wide Web.

Have decided to give Lorrie ONE more chance. Am going to go back over EVERYTHING with the Electrical and Fuel Delivery System to see if what keeps her from being reliable can be found.

Will do a step by step process to check EACH and EVERY thing, and make sure that what the problem is is NOT something that either myself or Lorrie's Components is doing.

Will keep the updates coming.

BTW, want to thank EVERYONE for their suggestions and comments. I sometimes fail to do that when the ordeal of messing with Lorrie gets me down.

Anyway, it's onward through the fog.

JC
 

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Remember, if you have spark to one of the sparkplugs, that whole system is working, so it will speed up the process. If not, then do all your other component checks.
 
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