It is, as tradition for Maserati, the name of a wind.
Grecale, Gregale in english, is a north-east wind.

 

But no Bora, Scirocco... No names of Italian winds. OK, Ghibli is another name for Scirocco.

 

Maserati has a long tradition of naming their cars after winds.
Bora, Mistral, Khamsin, Ghibli

 

I had guessed Meltemi for this new car, so I was in the right area, but had the wrong name.

Bora was used by Maserati in the early 1970s, but then VW used it for a car in the 2000s, so it’s probably not a good choice now. Sirocco was also used by VW since the early 1970s, so is pretty much ruled out.

Today’s trivia: VW’s choice of Scirocco as a name is actually a reference to the Golf, with which it shared its platform. The Golf came out a project that was code-named Golfstrom or “Gulf-stream” inside VW; and the Sirocco, built on the same platform but launched first, was so-named because while the Gulf-stream is a hot sea current, the Scirocco is a hot air current.

 

I had guessed Meltemi for this new car, so I was in the right area, but had the wrong name.

Bora was used by Maserati in the early 1970s, but then VW used it for a car in the 2000s, so it’s probably not a good choice now. Sirocco was also used by VW since the early 1970s, so is pretty much ruled out.

Today’s trivia: VW’s choice of Scirocco as a name is actually a reference to the Golf, with which it shared its platform. The Golf came out a project that was code-named Golfstrom or “Gulf-stream” inside VW; and the Sirocco, built on the same platform but launched first, was so-named because while the Gulf-stream is a hot sea current, the Scirocco is a hot air current.

Ghibli, Scirocco and Yugo(jugo) all have the same meaning.
Warm, wet, southeastern wind.

 

FCA brings back DeSoto !
The Old Car Manual Project Brochure Collection (at http://oldcarbrochures.org/United%20States/DeSoto/1946_DeSoto/1946_DeSoto_Brochure/index.html )

Note the resemblance to the 1947 DeSoto Suburban.
The Old Car Manual Project Brochure Collection (at http://oldcarbrochures.org/United%20States/DeSoto/1947_DeSoto/1947-DeSoto-Foldout/slides/1947_DeSoto_Foldout-05.html )

Do you notice there are no photo references to 1940s era DeSotos on Allpar? It a conspiracy facilitated by FCA.

 

The front headlights resemble the Jaguar E-Pace too much.
But the design looks disjointed. It feels like a mix between the Levante, Stelvio and E-Pace. They need to make it more harmonious.

 

I think that 3200 GT is inspiration for new Maserati's design course. Headlights and rear lights.

 

So reading news around the web and from what I've heard some time ago. Indeed this should be a more luxurious long wheelbase versions of Stelvio.

Many media houses, those who were at the event in Modena, are reporting that this car will be slightly smaller than Levante but much more sporty.
They are also reporting of a class leading habitability/interior space.

This leads me to conclusion that this is indeed a long wheelbase Stelvio.
Wheelbase should be around 10 cm (4") longer than on the Stelvio. With that it should be longer than 2.9 m (114").

 

why would they make same size (wheelbase 3,004 mm) car as Levante is now? If this appears to be too same kind of car as Stelvio, it will eat Alfa sales. The whole Maserati push kills Alfa slowly.

 

Maybe this will start at much higher price than Stelvio. Never thought about it?

 

yes I have though it, it will still eat Alfa sales if the performances is similar. There isnt such big audience for Italian cars. It should be then much higher price, that they dont overlap each other.

 

It will be bigger, more expensive and more powerful than Stelvio.

Maserati competes with Porsche; Alfa, with BMW.

 

It will be bigger, more expensive and more powerful than Stelvio.

Maserati competes with Porsche; Alfa, with BMW.

Hmmm...

Quattroporte is competing more with Audi, I'd say... Porsche's generally known for their small cars though lately it's their midsize SUVs. Either way, Maserati is more of a gran touring car, traditionally, isn't it? Bentley, Jaguar...

 

@KrisW

Exactly. Porsche is the most similar to Maserati although IMO Maserati will lack direct 911 competitor which was planned with Alfieri which was planned with many different powertrains and power levels. MC20 is nothing more but a halo model which is aimed more at Ferrari and McLaren and not so against 911 except for some track oriented variants.

The rest of the line-up goes neck and neck against Porsche. Grecale against Macan, Levante against Cayenne, Ghibli against... Ooops! Ghibli doesn't have direct Porsche competitor. It was more aimed against the case like Audi A7 and BMW 6 Gran Coupe. From what we know there will not be new Ghibli except if there is a plan change. New generation Quattroporte should have short and long wheelbase versions just as Porsche Panamera. It will go more squarely against Panamera.

 

@KrisW

Exactly. Porsche is the most similar to Maserati although IMO Maserati will lack direct 911 competitor which was planned with Alfieri which was planned with many different powertrains and power levels. MC20 is nothing more but a halo model which is aimed more at Ferrari and McLaren and not so against 911 except for some track oriented variants.

The rest of the line-up goes neck and neck against Porsche. Grecale against Macan, Levante against Cayenne, Ghibli against... Ooops! Ghibli doesn't have direct Porsche competitor. It was more aimed against the case like Audi A7 and BMW 6 Gran Coupe. From what we know there will not be new Ghibli except if there is a plan change. New generation Quattroporte should have short and long wheelbase versions just as Porsche Panamera. It will go more squarely against Panamera.

Not replacing the Ghibli would leave an opening to keep the 300 as the more affordable large car, a move that would hopefully lead to a new 300 with the Charger and Challenger. Strangely though, I see lots of Ghibli's here in Alberta. They may be replacements/upgrades for the lack of a new 300C, which was always more popular here than the Charger. I actually really like the Ghibli, and it's sales in N/A have been quite good, haven't they? Typical of FCA to cancel something that actually sells, and is popular?

 

Well, there's no Stelvio between 280 and 510 PS. Much room for Grecale. And if character is different one shouldn't fear overlap between Alfa and Maserati anyway. Rather see the possibility to join forces (money and manpower) and appeal to different people. Just the way PSA successfully does with their overlapping brands.

 

Grecale-Tonale ...Italians sure don't know how to pick names that roll off the English vernacular.
These names sound ugly when spoken by people who don't know Italian "linguistics".

It they sound like Gre-Kale and Toe-Nail in English.

 

Maybe that's a function of knowing your market. I'll hazard a bet that people who buy Italian cars are less likely to have this problem, and the names are an asset. I'd bet the war generation, if they spent any time in the Italian peninsula in WW2, could probably hazard a guess and be close.

 

Not many of the WW2 generation left, now, unfortunately.

Maybe I think too highly of Americans, but if a nation can deal with Connecticut’s surplus C, Arkansas (“that doesn’t rhyme with your Kansas”) and the various ways of saying Louisville (MS, KY), all the names that kept their foreign pronunciation like Schenectady, NY (Dutch), Duchesne, UT (French), La Jolla CA (Spanish) and ones that didn’t like Boise, ID and Detroit, MI (both French); then something like “Grecale” or “Tonale” is easy - just sound every letter!

And as the last words, can I just add... Willys! Sebring!

 

Not many of the WW2 generation left, now, unfortunately.

Maybe I think too highly of Americans, but if a nation can deal with Connecticut’s surplus C, Arkansas (“that doesn’t rhyme with your Kansas”) and the various ways of saying Louisville (MS, KY), all the names that kept their foreign pronunciation like Schenectady, NY (Dutch), Duchesne, UT (French), La Jolla CA (Spanish) and ones that didn’t like Boise, ID and Detroit, MI (both French); then something like “Grecale” or “Tonale” is easy - just sound every letter!

And as the last words, can I just add... Willys! Sebring!

Those cities you mentioned have been in the American English lexicon for more than a century and a half in most cases. People know how to pronounce those names because everyone pronounces them that way.

Another example of pronouncing a name the way it sounds is the vice presidential nominee name...Kamala.
Even though it's pronounced Comma-La, most people pronounce her name Ca-Ma-La.
That Tonale-Grecale are not everyday names, most people will pronounce those names the way they are written or with words that are similar...like Toenail and Greek Kale.

 

Despite the famous Shakespeare play and the NATO Phonetic Alphabet, every American I’ve heard talking about cars has managed to call it “Al-fa ro-MAY-oh” not “Al-fa ROH-mee-oh”. There is hope!

“Countach” was a funny one, as Italians also had to figure out how to pronounce it (seeing that -ch, Italians would be tempted to use a K sound at the end, but it should be sh).

The irony of all of this discussion is that it’s English that has the most insane pronunciation scheme of any language. You can learn to pronounce Italian in a day, German in two days and Korean in about three hours. Even the Central and Eastern European languages that we think are “hard” are all phonetically spelled and you can learn the pronunciation in a day or two*. English? You will never finish learning how to pronounce English. You think you’re a native, educated speaker, and suddenly a word like “quinoa” starts appearing on menus to mess with your head!

__
* Okay, Czech takes about five years; but four years, eleven months and twenty-nine days of that is learning to pronounce ř properly!

 

The irony of all of this discussion is that it’s English that has the most insane pronunciation scheme of any language. You can learn to pronounce Italian in a day, German in two days and Korean in about three hours. Even the Central and Eastern European languages that we think are “hard” are all phonetically spelled and you can learn the pronunciation in a day or two*. English? You will never finish learning how to pronounce English. You think you’re a native, educated speaker, and suddenly a word like “quinoa” starts appearing on menus to mess with your head!

Sure, but only if you only every speak "Hochdeutsch" in standard form. Actually, no, not even at that. You will never really LEARN to speak German properly in two days, unless you don't mind sounding like a foreigner. It really is harder to speak than English because of the umlaut and nevermind the variability of pronunciation of -ch in words like "milch" across Germany. I've been corrected on that one, because in Mainz, it's "milsch" and in Regensburg, it's "milx" like "Bach." I think way north it's actually pronounced "milk" and everywhere it comes from a "Molkerei." For those who don't get that, you don't pronounce -ch as -k in central and southern Germany. Linguists often use -x- to indicate High German -ch, which is closer to "h" sound with a leading "phlegm" a la Arabic. Cue the Jeff Dunham.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled Italiano.

 

@KrisW

Most Slavic languages have one sign one letter rule. But if it's Cyrillic i.e. azbuka than for who knows what reason some languages like Russian are using alphabet for English speakers instead of one voice one letter rule. For example Russian has 3 e letters which are all e in English alphabet but should be e, je and jo. For example it's not Fedor Emelianenko. It's Fjodor Jemeljanenko.

 

I did say pronounce German: speaking the language fluently is a different matter, and like every other language, that takes years.

I can speak German, and yes English speakers have trouble with the ich-laut, but it's only because it's not in the inventory of sounds in English (and as you say, regionally the Germans themselves don't agree). But it's not hard to make : say shhhh, now do it again with the tip of your tongue touching the bottom of your lower teeth. Now make that sound for every place you see ch after i or e and you're done. The other way to say ch, the ach-laut, is known in English as the ch in the Scottish pronunciation of the word "Loch" , and you use that sound everywhere you don't use the first version. That's the rule, and it's the only rule, and the only exceptions are for the English words that appear in modern German media. Compare that to the English rules for words ending in -gh!

@T_690 Yes, the Slavic languages using the Latin alphabet are really logical. I tried to learn Russian once, but it defeated me. The biggest pronunciation problem I had was "o": sometimes it's "a" sometimes it's "o", it's different for every word, and for some words nobody agrees what's right. I can still read Cyrillic slowly, but I'll usually be wrong somewhere, and I've forgotten everything of the language itself.

 

Manche Rachen packen charmante Sprachen lachend.

 

IMO, I think it says a lot about the arrogance of certain countries to expect brands from other countries to adopt names that conform to difficulty of said name being spelled in english. Maybe learn how to spell it? Learning a little bit about foreign languages never hurt anyone.

Ofcourse exceptions exist such as avoiding model names that mean something dirty in specific languages. Otherwise adapt to it. Everybody knows these brands are italian. Learn how to spell the freaking names.

 

Well, to be certain, it's pronunciation, not spelling, that is the issue in some of my fellow countrymen's eyes.

 

I find it helps a great deal to swear at the German cars in our fleet in German. I learned to swear in German from listening to my father swear. He learned the language when he stationed in Germany during the 1950s. He was thinking I wouldn't know what the words meant, but unfortunately as a teen, I apprenticed under German toolmakers who were more than glad to interpret and teach me a new language.

Now as far as the English language, I will use the name of the Fiat "120" concept to explain the difference between UK and American English. In Italian 120 is Centoventi, which is the formal name of the Fiat concept. In UK English it will be translated "One Hundred and Twenty or perhaps One Hundred, Twenty. Here in America we say Buck Twenty.

 

Genau! Or just as likely "One Twenty." Well, unless you're me talking over a scratchy radio. Then it becomes a "One-Two-Zero, over."

 

It’s always “One Hundred and Twenty” in British English. “One Hundred Twenty” is the score of a rugby match that has gone very badly for one team.

 

In standard American English the "and" should only go before the decimal place. Of course the English used to count like the Germans "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie" and pronounce like Americans with a rhotic R.

 

Genau! Or just as likely "One Twenty." Well, unless you're me talking over a scratchy radio. Then it becomes a "One-Two-Zero, over."

To clarify, that's AmE.

 

Do you notice there are no photo references to 1940s era DeSotos on Allpar? It a conspiracy facilitated by FCA.

Plymouth and DeSoto Buyer's Guide, the 1940s (at https://www.allpar.com/old/buyers-guide/d-1940s.html )

DeSoto cars, 1928-1961, with specifications (at https://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/desoto-cars.html )

Isn't that enough?

PS> Though I personally prefer:

 

Getting close to debut in November: