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Discussion Starter #1
Google translate:

The new models envisaged by the plan (500BEV, Tonale, Grecale, Jeep Compass, etc.) are all in the works, the re-launch of the Maserati brand is expected and the delay due to the pandemic is rapidly catching up. " Turin - explains Di Maulo, general secretary of Fismic Confsal - has authoritatively applied for the role of R&D and planning of the transition to electricity. All models will quickly make the technological leap, and the Giorgio platform is a candidate to set up all future high-end models of Stellantis. Furthermore, the role of President John Elkann is an operational role alongside that of Carlos Tavares.

“Finally, we had the reassurance that all phases of production, design, engineering and components currently allocated in Italy will in the future be under national governance. Regarding the Termoli plant, Secretary Mercogliano intervened, underlining the importance of assigning the mild hybrid engines and, as regards the engineering of the electric motor, who knows he may not reserve us some further good surprises. All these elements - concludes Di Maulo - lead us to believe that the numerous cries of alarm of the usual catastrophists who see the end of the automotive industry in Italy are without any foundation. Stellantis was born with a deep imprint given by the national automotive sector and the high rate of innovation that our industry in the sector has, including components, will only receive benefits from the establishment of the fourth largest car manufacturer in the world".

Whole article at:
 

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You can see where all the Jeep/Ram profits will be going. Yet another foreign company raking off cash to upgrade their own products and plants. Brampton and the big cars get shoved to back of the line again
 

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@rapidtrans, that's not quite fair. Cars sold in Europe have to move to cleaner emissions post-haste, while Americans need a lot of convincing to go with hybrids. Most companies are doing their hybrids in Japan and Europe first for that reason. Maserati has paid its own way for the most part, and is a good investment overall. Given that we just got a new three-row Grand Cherokee, a new regular Grand Cherokee, and soon a Wagoneer, it seems only fair. I do think it's a shame SM chose to cancel the nearly-ready large cars so he could make them Giorgio instead, but he's not in charge any more.
 

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For the record: this announcement is one part of the €5 billion investment program in FCA Italy's Italian facilities which is paid for by FCA Italy using a credit line it agreed with Intesa Sanpaolo bank last year, with the Italian state acting as guarantor.
 

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Maserati re-launch? They will have 2x relaunches. When will Dodge have a relaunch? They’ve been releasing “special models” to hold us over until new product/re-designs. Waiting 10+ years for this reminds me of “Bueller.. Bueller.. Bueller.”
FCA has Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, Maserati, Ram, and Lancia. Give it time. Jeep just got two new vehicles and a total do-over for a third. Chrysler got a refreshed minivan. Ram has been getting steady investments and the TRX. Maserati has been mainly profitable and is one of the company's most valuable brands.
 

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To the US doubters, Fiat in particular has been starved of invetment in Europe for a very, very long time largely to fund the improvements needed in the US!
That's as accurate as saying that Chrysler is starved of investment to feed Alfa Romeo... which is to say, it's a bit simplistic. Fiat was cut back, Sergio said, because they could no longer make profits from the cars that were being sold. Fiat did get investment, in one case the GSE (much more aimed at Fiat than old-Chrysler, which would have been fine with just GME), as well as the new 500, and so on, but it was certainly pared back quite a bit.

Your main point is on target, though. Fiat and Chrysler and Dodge have all had to take their licks while attention was lavished on Maserati, Ram, Alfa, and Jeep.

The basic takeaway here, forgetting the brand names for a moment, is that FCA put their money into the more expensive vehicles and slashed spending on the cheaper ones. (Consider, incidentally, that the Compass and Renegade/500X are very similar, and did not get a brand new platform or even one specially designed for them; they got a platform adapted to their needs. I personally think they would do better, competitively, with a brand new setup.)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
the GSE (much more aimed at Fiat than old-Chrysler, which would have been fine with just GME)
Yes, thus all developments was done in Italy and smaller part and Brazil. A lot of work together with all casting is done by fully owned subsidiary Teksid both in Brazil and Italy. By the end of 2021 installed Teksid capacity in Italy will be 800k units per year. By the end of this year this engine family in various versions will be assembled at 4 different factories at 3 different continents.

old-Chrysler, which would have been fine with just GME)
Very unlikely unless you want to start with 2.0 turbo engine. GSE is the one which will eventually replace 2.4 naturally aspirated engine. GME acts more like a Pentastar replacement and if GME T6 is going to happen it will eventually replace most of Hemi variants.
 

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Like I Said the GME T6 has Fallen off the Radar !
 

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I love their business model. I'm glad I don't perform my house maintenance like that. Their model, the furnace is on its last leg, but my well needs a new pump. I can either hope I might be able to nursemaid my furnace long enough to install a new well pump because I need water to live. All the while I pray my fridge, stove, and washer and dryer all last long enough to get a new furnace before the other things break. I haven't even addressed the roof or other things. I know some are going to cast a negative look on this. My point of this is, please right size the company so there's enough money to go around and not leave one brand fat and another looking like a skeleton. A well managed company, pandemic not withstanding, should have enough capital to keep it's brands updated. Maybe not all new, but up to date.
 

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To the US doubters, Fiat in particular has been starved of investment in Europe for a very, very long time largely to fund the improvements needed in the US!
LOL! From June 2009 when Fiat was given part of Chrysler to now when FCA dies here are the new vehicles by brand:
Fiat: Panda III, Tipo, 124 Spider, 500L, 500X, Mobi, Palio II, Argo/Cronos, Uno II, Grand Sienna, Fiorino III, Strada, Toro, Viaggio/Ottimo*.
Dodge: Dart*, Viper*
Chrysler: 200* Pacifica
*discontinued and not replaced.

14 new models for Fiat. 2 each for Dodge and Chrysler and 3/4 of those were discontinued without replacement. Please don't even tell me that some of the models were only available in South America. Remember who the incompetent management was that made that decision.
 

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That's as accurate as saying that Chrysler is starved of investment to feed Alfa Romeo... which is to say, it's a bit simplistic. Fiat was cut back, Sergio said, because they could no longer make profits from the cars that were being sold. Fiat did get investment, in one case the GSE (much more aimed at Fiat than old-Chrysler, which would have been fine with just GME), as well as the new 500, and so on, but it was certainly pared back quite a bit.

Your main point is on target, though. Fiat and Chrysler and Dodge have all had to take their licks while attention was lavished on Maserati, Ram, Alfa, and Jeep.

The basic takeaway here, forgetting the brand names for a moment, is that FCA put their money into the more expensive vehicles and slashed spending on the cheaper ones. (Consider, incidentally, that the Compass and Renegade/500X are very similar, and did not get a brand new platform or even one specially designed for them; they got a platform adapted to their needs. I personally think they would do better, competitively, with a brand new setup.)
177 HP 1.3T GSE is perfect for the cars and SUVs Dodge and Chrysler should be making. Alone for compacts, with an electric motor for hybrids.

They spent a bundle on new low margin cars on slightly refreshed old platforms for Fiat:
Panda III, Tipo, 124 Spider, 500L, 500X, Mobi, Palio II, Argo/Cronos, Uno II, Grand Sienna, Fiorino III, Strada, Toro, Viaggio/Ottimo*.

Yes, they would do far better with the PSA platforms.
 

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177 HP 1.3T GSE is perfect for the cars and SUVs Dodge and Chrysler should be making. Alone for compacts, with an electric motor for hybrids.

They spent a bundle on new low margin cars on slightly refreshed old platforms for Fiat:
Panda III, Tipo, 124 Spider, 500L, 500X, Mobi, Palio II, Argo/Cronos, Uno II, Grand Sienna, Fiorino III, Strada, Toro, Viaggio/Ottimo*.

Yes, they would do far better with the PSA platforms.
Yeah, that's what they said about the 1.4 FIRE too. Peak horsepower and torque numbers are great, but the proof is in the driving. Having an electric motor with the GSE would probably resolve those problems, if they exist in the 1.3.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
177 HP 1.3T GSE is perfect for the cars and SUVs Dodge and Chrysler should be making. Alone for compacts, with an electric motor for hybrids.

They spent a bundle on new low margin cars on slightly refreshed old platforms for Fiat:
Panda III, Tipo, 124 Spider, 500L, 500X, Mobi, Palio II, Argo/Cronos, Uno II, Grand Sienna, Fiorino III, Strada, Toro, Viaggio/Ottimo*.

Yes, they would do far better with the PSA platforms
AFAIK 1.5 turbo with hybrid gearbox isn't coming to US. At least according to current plans. Maybe they don't want to risk with MHEV in the US. But PHEV should come.


Yes, of course, PSA transforms water into wine. :rolleyes:
 

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LOL! From June 2009 when Fiat was given part of Chrysler to now when FCA dies here are the new vehicles by brand:
Fiat: Panda III, Tipo, 124 Spider, 500L, 500X, Mobi, Palio II, Argo/Cronos, Uno II, Grand Sienna, Fiorino III, Strada, Toro, Viaggio/Ottimo*.
Dodge: Dart*, Viper*
Chrysler: 200* Pacifica
*discontinued and not replaced.

14 new models for Fiat. 2 each for Dodge and Chrysler and 3/4 of those were discontinued without replacement. Please don't even tell me that some of the models were only available in South America. Remember who the incompetent management was that made that decision.
The platforms underpinning those models were mostly redeveloped from older bases and shared in many instances between EMEA and LATAM. In the case of the Tipo that can trace its origins to the 80's but much of the development cost was funded by the Turkish JV. 124 Spider is a Mazda built in Japan with some sheet metal changes and a Fiat engine.
You may be surprised to find that many LATAM models are underpinned with CUSW or a derivative thereof. 500L 500X and Renegade share platforms, so does the Compass and in all probability the reverse is true - that platform spawned the EMEA derivatives, not vice versa. Panda 319 (in your terminology 111) is derived from the 500 platform which was an adaptation of the Panda 169 platform introduced in 2003. Oh, and the Viaggio aka Dart were Chinese derivatives of the Tipo! Now, how many are actually exclusive to Fiat / Alfa in Europe?
 

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The platforms underpinning those models were mostly redeveloped from older bases and shared in many instances between EMEA and LATAM. In the case of the Tipo that can trace its origins to the 80's but much of the development cost was funded by the Turkish JV. 124 Spider is a Mazda built in Japan with some sheet metal changes and a Fiat engine.
You may be surprised to find that many LATAM models are underpinned with CUSW or a derivative thereof. 500L 500X and Renegade share platforms, so does the Compass and in all probability the reverse is true - that platform spawned the EMEA derivatives, not vice versa. Panda 319 (in your terminology 111) is derived from the 500 platform which was an adaptation of the Panda 169 platform introduced in 2003. Oh, and the Viaggio aka Dart were Chinese derivatives of the Tipo! Now, how many are actually exclusive to Fiat / Alfa in Europe?
Every FCA car platform except Giorgio can trace its origins to cars from 1996-2007. The problem is that Fiat got 13 new cars on those platforms and the two brands of Chrysler and Dodge got 3 combined. Fiat got fat compared to the starvation diet that Chrysler and Dodge got.
 
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